[Official] Austrian Grand Prix 2022: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 11 of 22

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Or - any updates to the PU have not been released to all teams at the same time?

I'm not sure what the current regulation on in regards to:


1 When exactly you can make changes to the PU?
2 If you are allow to run a different spec to your client teams?


That's why I said, perhaps it's the same PU but that is not run the same way?

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist

Superb drive over the last few laps by Chas. Think about that: trying to drive an F1 car competitively with a sticking throttle And I might be wrong but I didn't once notice him locking up the fronts, even though the brake balance must have been a mile out.

Indeed.

In one sense it was good to see track limits penalties being handed out for all infringements. But it's time to totally review "kerbs", which have grown out of all proportion over the years. I would suggest getting rid of them completely (apart from a little edging to stop the tarmac crumbling). If you only give the drivers a black bit, that's what they'll drive on.

One of the problems with that is bike racing. It's one thing to offer race cars this black and white limit, for bikes it would be quite dangerous. Too dangerous in my view.




If they just replaced the green and white kerb with astroturf plates for car racing, nobody would go off the track cause it would cost you time. And if you do occasionally get your outside wheels on the astroturf (or any other lower grip plates/strips), you don't need to be penalized because you would loose time anyway.

Perhaps they can devise a way to stably place two plates with different grip levels on top of each other and then simply switch them around for car and bike racing. That way you don't need to store them elsewhere at the track and transport them to the corner, but perhaps that's over-complicating things a bit.

[VIVA GT]

Another aspect that crossed my mind regarding LeClerc's throttle problem: would that also have affected his electrical harvesting. What I mean is that if the throttle pedal is not showing as being fullt released, would the harvesting still happen?

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Another aspect that crossed my mind regarding LeClerc's throttle problem: would that also have affected his electrical harvesting. What I mean is that if the throttle pedal is not showing as being fullt released, would the harvesting still happen?

I don't know, but possibly he was told from the pit wall to switch to a certain mode to optimise the performance within the limitation set by the stuck throttle.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

1 When exactly you can make changes to the PU?
2 If you are allow to run a different spec to your client teams?

1. The PUs were homologated on 1 March, and the specification can't be changed during the season. They can update parts for reliability purposes.
The ancillaries (Energy Store (ES), Control Electronics (CE) and the MGU-K) can be developed up until 1 September - but can only be upgraded on the car once before that date.

2. All customer cars have to be offered any updates - but they are not obliged to take them.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

If they just replaced the green and white kerb with astroturf plates for car racing, nobody would go off the track cause it would cost you time. And if you do occasionally get your outside wheels on the astroturf (or any other lower grip plates/strips), you don't need to be penalized because you would loose time anyway.

Having a surface just beyond the edge of the track that has significantly lower grip levels is dangerous. The car will lose grip in a sudden (and unpredictable) manner and the potential for big accidents is increased.

You would see more cars spinning out of control, potentially veering back across the circuit into traffic or spearing into barriers.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

1. The PUs were homologated on 1 March, and the specification can't be changed during the season. They can update parts for reliability purposes.
The ancillaries (Energy Store (ES), Control Electronics (CE) and the MGU-K) can be developed up until 1 September - but can only be upgraded on the car once before that date.

And we probably be informed about that right (genuine question).

. All customer cars have to be offered any updates - but they are not obliged to take them.

So Alfa could have refused an upgrade (if a "reliability upgrade" is possible without the rest of the world knowing about it).

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Having a surface just beyond the edge of the track that has significantly lower grip levels is dangerous. The car will lose grip in a sudden (and unpredictable) manner and the potential for big accidents is increased.

You would see more cars spinning out of control, potentially veering back across the circuit into traffic or spearing into barriers.

Silverstone has such solution as well:






I does not have to be a much lower grip level. Just enough so it automatically is the slower option to drive on to it so the track limits are self punishing.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/th...oblem/6622939/

And on the Austria turn 6 change which Verstappen was referring to in his post-race comments:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/re...eader/6603123/

“There was a double kerb. So the red and white, green and white, and then yellow sausages. And they've been removed.

“Effectively, what we've aimed for is two metres from the edge of the track, which is generally the width the car, and then you've got gravel. That was one of the changes that we have implemented here this year, from last year." “Now there's no issue at Turn 6 at all, based on the way that track design has been amended for 2021.”

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

And we probably be informed about that right (genuine question).

I'm not sure what you mean - the information is in the published regulations.

Originally Posted by Taxi645

So Alfa could have refused an upgrade (if a "reliability upgrade" is possible without the rest of the world knowing about it).

Yes - they could choose to implement any update at a later date, or not apply it at all if they wish.

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Silverstone has such solution as well:

Do they have such a solution on the outside of a corner at maximum traction / lateral force? (genuinely asking - not picking)

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

I'm not sure what you mean - the information is in the published regulations.

I mean if such upgrade is introduced, we would know about it right?

Yes - they could choose to implement any update at a later date, or not apply it at all if they wish.

Right.

Do they have such a solution on the outside of a corner at maximum traction / lateral force? (genuinely asking - not picking)

This is from Becketts to Chapel so definitely on the maximum grip of the tire.





P.S. Apologies for editing my post so much. Bit slow today.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

This is from Becketts to Chapel so definitely on the maximum grip of the tire.

That looks like it is on the inside of Becketts? The insertion of a kerb was (partially) designed to give the driver a 'feel' of when they are approaching track limits.

If so - the lateral forces are from the track edge inwards and the torque levels at the wheel will be lower.

At the exit of a corner, I think the forces are different.

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

That looks like it is on the inside of Becketts? The insertion of a kerb was (partially) designed to give the driver a 'feel' of when they are approaching track limits.

If so - the lateral forces are from the track edge inwards and the torque levels at the wheel will be lower.

At the exit of a corner, I think the forces are different.

In the back you the boarding above the hangar straight, so this is the outside of Becketts going into Chapel. As said the cars will be at max grip limit of the tire here.

[Akrapovic]

You're both correct. Silverstone has sections where the outside of the exit kerb is grass, and has sections where it's tarmac. It isn't consistent throughout the circuit.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I watched highlights and it was definitely a come down for me.

I have had to watch highlights before and they never quite capture the essence of a live event, but better than not watching at all.

[Aysedasi]

True, but I probably get annoyed about things like repetitive track limit warnings more than others....

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

You're both correct. Silverstone has sections where the outside of the exit kerb is grass, and has sections where it's tarmac. It isn't consistent throughout the circuit.

Thanks for clearing that up.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

You're both correct. Silverstone has sections where the outside of the exit kerb is grass, and has sections where it's tarmac. It isn't consistent throughout the circuit.

Is it [grass] used anywhere that track limits are a recognised issue?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Having a surface just beyond the edge of the track that has significantly lower grip levels is dangerous. The car will lose grip in a sudden (and unpredictable) manner and the potential for big accidents is increased.

You would see more cars spinning out of control, potentially veering back across the circuit into traffic or spearing into barriers.

Alternatively, instead of replacing the green and white kerb with astroturf plates, why not have a surface that you wouldn't want to drive over?

[Taxi645]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

Alternatively, instead of replacing the green and white kerb with astroturf plates, why not have a surface that you wouldn't want to drive over?

Well the idea is that you also don't want to drive over the astroturf (or any other suitable surface will low enough grip) because you'd simple loose time doing so.

I think what we want is for competitors to normally stick to the track.

I think what we don't want is:

A) people gaining an advantage by going off track.
B) Having to constantly hand out penalties in order to achieve A).
C) Sausage kerbs that can be very dangerous when hit the wrong way (especially on a bike).

I think a strip/plate of astroturf or something would achieve all that and perhaps could be swapped for bike racing.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Taxi645

Well the idea is that you also don't want to drive over the astroturf (or any other suitable surface will low enough grip) because you'd simple loose time doing so.

I think what we want is for competitors to normally stick to the track.

I think what we don't want is:

A) people gaining an advantage by going off track.
B) Having to constantly hand out penalties in order to achieve A).
C) Sausage kerbs that can be very dangerous when hit the wrong way (especially on a bike).

I think a strip/plate of astroturf or something would achieve all that and perhaps could be swapped for bike racing.

I was thinking of something that was either vary abrasive, or extremely bumpy, something you would not want to go near.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I was thinking of something that was either vary abrasive, or extremely bumpy, something you would not want to go near.

This'd do.....

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

This'd do.....

Perfect and they can be easily removed for bike racing.

[Aysedasi]

Yep, problem solved.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

This'd do.....

Sadly, I'm sure that if that was what was used I'm sure you'd find that suddenly, 100% of the drivers would stop exceeding track limits...

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Sadly, I'm sure that if that was what was used I'm sure you'd find that suddenly, 100% of the drivers would stop exceeding track limits...

It's similar to a concrete wall in that way, which incidentally are also 100% effective devices for enforcing track limits.

[Sodemo]

Grass and Gravel is the groundbreaking solution to track limit violations.