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Old 30 Sep 2020, 14:49 (Ref:4007579)   #1601
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It is, and always has been, a challenge on street circuits (unless they make the tyres rock hard like they did in Sochi 2014).

I wouldn't have thought Sochi was one of the worst ones for it. The issue there is purely the track layout which is just plain poor.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 14:55 (Ref:4007585)   #1602
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It is, and always has been, a challenge on street circuits (unless they make the tyres rock hard like they did in Sochi 2014).

I wouldn't have thought Sochi was one of the worst ones for it. The issue there is purely the track layout which is just plain poor.
Indeed, just trying to think of 'classic' street tracks with simple layouts that encouraged racing..

Long Beach definitely did?
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 14:59 (Ref:4007589)   #1603
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The list ends there I think!
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:02 (Ref:4007593)   #1604
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The list ends there I think!
😂😂😂

If you take Monaco out which is classic cause of history, LB is probably the best street circuit ever

Caesars Palace, Dallas on the other hand....
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:05 (Ref:4007595)   #1605
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biased, but i would put Montreal on that list.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:13 (Ref:4007597)   #1606
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biased, but i would put Montreal on that list.
And Adelaide.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:13 (Ref:4007598)   #1607
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Oh yeah Montreal, of course. Adelaide too.

There are probably loads more going back, some that aren't immediately considered street tracks. I always forget Montreal because when I think street course I immediately think of buildings crowding the circuit and literally nothing else.

Melbourne... there's another!
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:14 (Ref:4007599)   #1608
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😂😂😂

If you take Monaco out which is classic cause of history, LB is probably the best street circuit ever

Caesars Palace, Dallas on the other hand....
Detroit.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:22 (Ref:4007601)   #1609
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Oh yeah Montreal, of course. Adelaide too.

There are probably loads more going back, some that aren't immediately considered street tracks. I always forget Montreal because when I think street course I immediately think of buildings crowding the circuit and literally nothing else.

Melbourne... there's another!
Yes Circuit GV! Must never drop off the calendar permanently!

Adelaide better than Melbourne for racing perhaps?

Phoenix was a truly great example of...
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:28 (Ref:4007609)   #1610
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...public apathy?
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 15:29 (Ref:4007611)   #1611
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...public apathy?
😂😂😂

I was going to say wasted road closures but you've aced that one!!
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 18:53 (Ref:4007667)   #1612
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Dallas was actually quite a challenge, unlike Detroit and Phoenix. Just a shame it lasted one season.

Adelaide did have a nice long straight to slipstream on. It says something that this was the only street circuit Piquet actually liked.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 19:13 (Ref:4007672)   #1613
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It says something that this was the only street circuit Piquet actually liked.
I thought Piquet had a particular attraction to the walls at Singapore?

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Old 30 Sep 2020, 19:18 (Ref:4007675)   #1614
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I thought Piquet had a particular attraction to the walls at Singapore?


Wrong Piquet.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 19:19 (Ref:4007676)   #1615
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😂😂😂

If you take Monaco out which is classic cause of history, LB is probably the best street circuit ever

Caesars Palace, Dallas on the other hand....

I would put Baku ahead of Long Beach,but both are good.
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 19:24 (Ref:4007677)   #1616
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Wrong Piquet.
Hence the emoji
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Old 30 Sep 2020, 20:02 (Ref:4007691)   #1617
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I would put Baku ahead of Long Beach,but both are good.

also a fan of the Baku layout. lacking in the spectator department but really carries that sense of thrill to it.

the speed and skill level required for it compensates for the lack of overtaking...something that cannot be said for some other street races.

probably not a popular opinion, but Monaco, while a beautiful historic setting, typically produces dull races.
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Old 1 Oct 2020, 09:43 (Ref:4007757)   #1618
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Baku reminds me a bit of Detroit, especially those left right turns you have round the back.

Monaco isn’t really about how good the racing, it’s a proper driver challenge which is what F1 is about. And we have had tenser races due to overtaking not being a given there
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Old 2 Oct 2020, 02:46 (Ref:4007872)   #1619
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Monaco isn’t really about how good the racing, it’s a proper driver challenge which is what F1 is about. And we have had tenser races due to overtaking not being a given there
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Old 11 Oct 2020, 11:36 (Ref:4009749)   #1620
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Huge problem with F1 has been that through the 90s, 2000s and 2010s it became predatory in its behaviour to the rest of motorsport.

So outrageous is F1's monopoly of eyeballs, that when drivers leave F1 for another series, most outlets say they have 'retired', implying that anything else is just for fun.

As a result, F1 is trying to be a series for manufacturers and independents with single seaters that have to be road relevant to attract the former but not so expensive they deter the former.

The result is a product that suits no one. The V6 Hybrids don't provide enough 'wow' for spectators, nor are they especially road-relevant, as Mercedes are proving excellently with their difficulties it turning theirs into something that be driven in real life.

What I hope for is a new era of collaboration between racing series, especially those at the FIA.

Are you a manufacturer that wants race against your direct competitors in the actual cars you sell? Touring cars or rallying.
Are you a manufacturer that wants to race against your direct competitors in the most expensive cars you sell? GTs.
Are you manufacturer that wants to race something you can't mass produce yet, but might do one day? And do you want people to see your brand as sporty? Prototypes.
Are you a manufacturer that wants everyone to know you make electric cars these days? Formula E
Do you have more money than sense? F1.

Not only does F1 not need major manufacturers, I'd go as far as to say that it's better off without them (with the exception of Ferrari, although despite their size they are still small-volume). F1 should be pure, loud and spectacular escapism, watching totally ridiculous cars driven by completely unhinged human beings.

Nobody trackside watching Jim Clark drift through Woodcote was lamenting he was doing it in a Lotus rather than a Vauxhall. Nobody would have been any more entertained by James Hunt if his F1 car was entered by Datsun. There wouldn't have been any extra edge to the Senna/Prost rivalry if their McLarens were badged as Protons.

Simplify and intensify F1, and encourage the manufacturers to get what they need elsewhere in the sport.
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Old 25 Oct 2020, 07:52 (Ref:4012683)   #1621
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Should the engine supply rule be changed from:

The Engine manufacturer supplying the least amount of teams is obliged to supply a team without engines.

To:

Every engine manufacturer participating in the championship is obliged to be willing and capable to supply all teams minus the amount of other manufacturers.

So this would mean that if you have ten team and three manufacturers, every engine manufacturer is obliged to be willing and able to supply ten minus two = eight teams.


This change would empower strong teams being excluded from a competitive engine because an engine manufacturer does not want competition.


Would it be desirable and would it be effective or would the independent team still be hampered by a different level of support (even if strictly illegal)?
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Old 25 Oct 2020, 21:56 (Ref:4013026)   #1622
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Should the engine supply rule be changed from...
It should be unrealistic to expect a single manufacturer to supply 8 teams.

That would open the door for teams like Red Bull, McLaren, etc... to just hop from manufacturer to manufacturer as they see fit.

The net result would ne that next year we would have Red Bull, Torro Rosso, Haas, Williams, Force India, McLaren and Mercedes itself all with Mercedes engines leaving just Renault with Renault and Alfa and Ferrari with Ferrari.

And what happens when Ferrari makes the best engine, everyone from the first group except Mercedes itself jumps ship to Ferrari?

--

Or maybe better: Sauber wants to run with a Mercedes engine, just so Ferrari can take it apart and reverse engineer it.

And Mercedes can't say no, because they have to supply the 8th team and may not refuse.
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Old 25 Oct 2020, 21:59 (Ref:4013028)   #1623
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It should be unrealistic to expect a single manufacturer to supply 8 teams.
Ford did with the DFV.

Again, I am so clever And here I refer back to when F1 was amazing. So I am cool too.

Equally back in the day we didn’t have to force anyone to do anything.
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Old 26 Oct 2020, 07:33 (Ref:4013101)   #1624
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It should be unrealistic to expect a single manufacturer to supply 8 teams.

That would open the door for teams like Red Bull, McLaren, etc... to just hop from manufacturer to manufacturer as they see fit.

Well more power to them, I think it would be very healthy for F1 to have teams much less dependant on the whims of the PU manufacturer.



Also, switching PU is not as easy as you make it sound. First there is the design work you need to do and second the dimensions of the PU has a large influence on the cars aerodynamics. One of the reasons why Red Bull would like to continue with the Honda power unit.


Quote:
The net result would ne that next year we would have Red Bull, Torro Rosso, Haas, Williams, Force India, McLaren and Mercedes itself all with Mercedes engines leaving just Renault with Renault and Alfa and Ferrari with Ferrari.

And what happens when Ferrari makes the best engine, everyone from the first group except Mercedes itself jumps ship to Ferrari?

I agree that with the current complex regulations it would be too much to ask. The resource fluctuations would be too large. With a simpler power unit concept, I think it would be easily possible. With a simpler PU, differences between manufactures PU performance would be smaller so choices would be made more on the basis of other criteria.


--

Quote:
Or maybe better: Sauber wants to run with a Mercedes engine, just so Ferrari can take it apart and reverse engineer it.

And Mercedes can't say no, because they have to supply the 8th team and may not refuse.

That could be quite easily addressed with a fairly simple set of additional regulations and/or contract stipulations.
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Old 26 Oct 2020, 11:05 (Ref:4013154)   #1625
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That could be quite easily addressed with a fairly simple set of additional regulations and/or contract stipulations.
Are we allowed to use the 'simple' word in a discussion about F1 regs?
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