beginners quipment help

AlexF · 9 Sep 2005, 09:08 (Ref:1402656)

Right Guys I need your hepl!

I'm been getting into photography for the last couple of years and have been using a nikon compact digital camera with fairly good results I'd say based on poeople reactions to my photos...

http://www.afracing.com/b2n.htm

http://www.afracing.com/l2b.htm

But I want to start doing it properly now and need some decent kit!

So.... what should I be looking at, the Canon digital SLR stuff looks great, but is it what I want?!

I'm happy to spend 500-600 quid on a camera and a lense or two...

Thanks!

Alex

gungadan · 9 Sep 2005, 11:26 (Ref:1402759)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexF

Right Guys I need your hepl!

I'm been getting into photography for the last couple of years and have been using a nikon compact digital camera with fairly good results I'd say based on poeople reactions to my photos...

http://www.afracing.com/b2n.htm

http://www.afracing.com/l2b.htm

But I want to start doing it properly now and need some decent kit!

So.... what should I be looking at, the Canon digital SLR stuff looks great, but is it what I want?!

I'm happy to spend 500-600 quid on a camera and a lense or two...

For trackside photos an SLR is pretty much essential but that's not much of a budget for a digital SLR and lenses. It might be worth considering a relatively cheap 2nd hand film body and the best lens you can afford. Only problem with this approach is that you won't have the 1.5/1.6 crop factor working in your favour so you'll need at least a 300mm focal length lens and 400mm would be better. But at least you can try it for a season and if you take to it, you can always upgrade to a DSLR next year and use the same lens. To be honest even then your budget might be a bit stretched.

HTH

AlexF · 9 Sep 2005, 12:04 (Ref:1402794)

Not going back to film...

its crap and expensive!

alex

James North · 9 Sep 2005, 14:06 (Ref:1402933)

It depends on how far you intend on taking this as to the budget you are willing to set aside.

I agree with gungadan, that £500-600 not nearly enough. I spent £600 alone on a lens, and it isn't even a prime.

If you are treating this as a hobby, and mainly photographing from the spectator areas, then getting a low end DSLR is okay.

If you harber ambition to do it professionally from press areas, then perhaps you could consider taking out a loan.

Or you could see if you could net a deal on ebay.

------------------

One thing I would advise is to go for the expensive/quality option now.

If you decide on compromise on quality, even if it's only to practise, you will probably regrette it.

AlexF · 9 Sep 2005, 14:16 (Ref:1402946)

Its only ever going to be a hobby, I haven't got the time to do it or dare I say the tallent!

So what could I get for that money?

Alex

James North · 9 Sep 2005, 15:45 (Ref:1403027)

If it's only ever going to be a hobby then for the time being, and without trying to sound negative you are probably better off sticking with what you already have.

Even an entry level Digital SLR body (like a Canon 350D or Nikon D50) would pretty much take up all of your budget and not leave anything for a lense of any meaningful zoom. And zoom is something you need trackside.

If you would like to see the kind of equipment available in your price range go to Jessops.com and do a search with your budget range.

If you ask me if you still want to get a DSLR, then either a canon 350D or Nikon D50 (£500-650 including 15-55mm lens) paired with a Simga 28-300mm lens (£130) is probably your best bet.

But keep a look out on ebay for used cameras and lenses. Often there are good deals on used, but in very good condition equipment on there.

David L · 9 Sep 2005, 17:45 (Ref:1403133)

A Nikon D50 +18-55mm LENS +70-300mm GS LENS retails for £700 odd and there's £50 cash-back on offer now as well, so that's only 50 above your upper limit..

It seems to me that this little kit would offer somebody looking to spread their wings a little a fairly good range of options as long as you don't need to get too close to the action or too extreme in usage..

Read a review here..

D50 Review

Have a look at the samples from the D50 in this gallery.. They look a lot "cleaner" than the images in your links, so you should notice an improvement..

D50 Samples

Best of luck..

RobertPrange · 9 Sep 2005, 19:05 (Ref:1403183)

I dont know about the D50 , i once held it and it felt a little cheap. If I were you , i would add a few Pounds and get a D70s. I am perfectly happy with it , despite the fact that theres no Battery-Grip available for it.

It certainly offers more than the almost equivalent Canon 350D if you dont need the 8mpix....

rdjones · 9 Sep 2005, 19:18 (Ref:1403194)

I have Canon 10D, which is a fantastic it of kit. But I have looked at both the Canon 350D and the D50 and I have to agree with Robert on this one they both felf very cheap. I have alos looked at the D70 which is very good camara.

philneast · 10 Sep 2005, 01:18 (Ref:1403355)

Alexf

I have recently boougth a Pentax *istDS Digital SLR and it is capable of excellent results. It shares the same sensor as the Nikon D70.

One of teh deciding factors for me is the compatiblity of existing lenses with the new camera. Any Penttx K mount lens will fit and operate. There are a vast array of older lenses out there that are available second hand.

I have started adding a collection of second hand lens that range from AF zooms to manual focus primes.

The effective mangnification of 1.5 for my Pentax (most other Digital SLRs have a similar property) means that a modest 135 mm prime becomes an effective 200mm prime making them even better value.

I have found that even with all auto exposure and focus available that for motorsport I still return to all manual.

Correct shutter speed that is matched to the speed of the subject is critical in catching the action and it is not the same as normal exposure.

I tend to focus on spot on the track and wait for the machine to get there so I prefer manual focus.

So older and cheaper manual lenses have advantages for motorsport and being able to use them is a big plus for the Pentax

All the kart shots here are from the digital pentax
http://phil-northeast.fotopic.net

AlexF · 10 Sep 2005, 08:42 (Ref:1403549)

Thanks Phil...

whats the delay between you pressing the button and the camera actually taking the picture, I find that infurating!!

924nut · 10 Sep 2005, 08:57 (Ref:1403555)

Digital SLRs are as quick as film cameras- the delay only occurs with the pocket digitals so no need to worry-

philneast · 10 Sep 2005, 10:08 (Ref:1403601)

The biggest cause of delay is when the autofocus can't make up its mind.

In autofocus mode it will not shoot without the camera being focused, except for moving object mode when it will continually focus as it tries to maintain focus on the moving subject.

Of course the is no appreciable delay in manual focus mode.

I don't have a problem with it.
One of my main techniques is to focus on a spot on the track and shoot when the subject is travelling through that spot, if there was appreciable delay the subject would have travelled through the spot and I don't have that problem.

The biggest problems I have are camera shake on long lenses and getting the shutter speed fast enough in low light to keep the image sharp.

Phil

MikeHoyer · 10 Sep 2005, 11:42 (Ref:1403648)

I agree with David L, best to start with an entry level DSLR and couple of cheapish lenses. You could easily spend thousands on gear, but that looks like a fairly good start.

However, if you want a good setup, youll need to spend a fair bit more.

gungadan · 10 Sep 2005, 13:58 (Ref:1403712)

Quote:

Originally Posted by philneast

One of my main techniques is to focus on a spot on the track and shoot when the subject is travelling through that spot, if there was appreciable delay the subject would have travelled through the spot and I don't have that problem.

Just out of interest; are you saying you point the camera at that the pre-focused point and release the shutter when the subject is in the frame, or that you pan but only take the pic when the subject is at that position?

gungadan · 10 Sep 2005, 14:00 (Ref:1403716)

Quote:

Originally Posted by philneast

All the kart shots here are from the digital pentax
http://phil-northeast.fotopic.net

I like this one:

http://phil-northeast.fotopic.net/p16808701.html

Doesn't look too bad - should polish out OK...

philneast · 10 Sep 2005, 23:51 (Ref:1404017)

gungadan

basically I do that for two types of shots.

The side pan shot where I move the camera to follow ths subject to the focus point, ususally when I am facing straight ahead.

The other is for a generally head on shots where I wait for the subject to get to the focus spot. The trick I am working on is to get teh shutter speed right so that the wheels are blurred but verything else is stopped.

That was one of my son's motors, there were bits eveywhere, even on the track.

R59 · 11 Sep 2005, 09:38 (Ref:1404349)

I use a Sigma SD9, which after some early teething problems caused by trying to use NiMH batteries which lasted 5 minutes, compared to using Li-Ion Rechargeables which last for days!

It's not as fast as some of the Canon's or Nikon's, and in ISO400, you can notice graining in low light shots if you look close enough. The later SD10 has better ISO settings, and some of the SD9's problems have been fixed.

You can pick them up secondhand at reasonable prices too.

The only downside is the Sigma can only use Sigma lenses. OK they're cheap enough, but going for something like the Canon or Nikon gives you more lense choices (from the likes of Sigma etc..)

Lense wise, I use a 28-300AF lense, for some circuits, it gives enough zoom, for others I could do with more, probably a 600.

While I think about it, the Sigma's USB connection is woefully slow. Use the Firewire link, or pull the Compact flash card out, and stick it in an external reader. Sigma's software is slow too, but has quite a few useful features.

And if you ever get arty farty, the SD9/SD10's output can be considered on-par with using Fuji Velvia 50 film, which gives great warmth to the pic. Not a lot of cop for fast moving stuff though!

Rob.

Gazen · 11 Sep 2005, 18:57 (Ref:1404860)

For the sort of budget you are looking at it may be worth trying the secondhand shops. They will be more expensive than you can buy them for on ebay, but you can send it back if you are not happy and they all provde a guarantee. These are the ones I have used in the past:

www.mxvphotographic.com
www.mifsuds.com
www.ffordes.co.uk

I have had a quick look through and there are Nikon D70s, Nikon D1s, Canon 300Ds and Canon 10Ds available for under £600.
MXV photographic have a Nikon D70 with a 18-70 mm f3.5/f4.5 available for £560. They also have a 70-300 mm f4/f5.6 ED AFD for £199 (I am not sure how good this lens is as I am a Canon person). That is a total of £760 + about £9 p&p to get you started. You can always invest in the higher quality prime lenses in the future.

Hope this helps.

gungadan · 11 Sep 2005, 19:41 (Ref:1404912)

Quote:

Originally Posted by philneast

gungadan

basically I do that for two types of shots.

The side pan shot where I move the camera to follow ths subject to the focus point, ususally when I am facing straight ahead.

The other is for a generally head on shots where I wait for the subject to get to the focus spot. The trick I am working on is to get teh shutter speed right so that the wheels are blurred but verything else is stopped.

That was one of my son's motors, there were bits eveywhere, even on the track.

Car frozen and wheels still blurred is certainly the tricky bit. Especially as it depends on the speed of the car so is variable.

It did look like a fairly comprehensive seizure. I bet compression was down a bit after that.

MikeHoyer · 11 Sep 2005, 21:17 (Ref:1405009)

For blurred wheels, but sharp car, about 1/320 shutter works well for me, for head on shots.

Emotive Images · 12 Sep 2005, 10:41 (Ref:1405487)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeHoyer

For blurred wheels, but sharp car, about 1/320 shutter works well for me, for head on shots.

Great minds....etc.

1/320th is the speed I've come to accept as my "banker" shutter speed before I start tweaking it.

-Mark.

kdr · 12 Sep 2005, 12:16 (Ref:1405593)

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexF

Not going back to film...

its crap and expensive!

alex

although i'd also suggest a digital camera, can i just say that although expensive...film most definitely isn't crap.

MikeHoyer · 12 Sep 2005, 13:06 (Ref:1405620)

I'd agree with that, film is no doubt great, but digital is a lot easier to work with.

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