Problems with Hollinger Gearboxes??

[ford boy]

Is there a problem with these so called Bulletproof gearboxes? Especially 4th gear??
Todd Kelly problems with 3 gearboxes in 2 race meetings.
Mark Winterbottom in race 3 today lost 4th gear late in the race.
Cromley thought there might be more to the story as to why they have failed.

[1200Datto27]

Are they all using the Hollinger internals though? some teams run Modena gearsets, I've heard that couple use gearsets out of Europe (Quaife or X-Trac) as well as using custom links/selectors in the boxes. Without knowing how the internals are built and assembled, it is difficult to diagnose the causes. It may just be that due to the way that the 3-4 change is aligned through neutral in the HRT cars, combined with Todds seating position, he puts more load onto 4th when he changes gear.

[pete55]

Isn't it about time Sequential gearshifts were bought in. That would solve a lot of the problems.

[ford boy]

Im not a fan of sequential gear shifting in motorsport. It will become more processional racing because there is no chance of miss-shifts and the like. Makes less things for the driver to do and to worry about.

[billy bigtime]

More to the problem?? Obviously.
Kelly should ask Skaife what's going on.

[billybob]

I'm picking there is nothing wrong with the gear sets, I think more than likely the promblem is how the gear cut was set up not allowing enough time for the driver to change gears as changing from 3rd to 4th takes longer as it is across the gate, on saying that that wasn't kelly's problem he lifted the gear lever out of the selector whist it was still in gear if he had selected an other gear he would have blown the gearbox up, there is a spring on the lever to stop you from doing this but some drivers are just to aggresive. This box needs this spring because to select reverse you have to lift the gearlever and put it in 5th to get reverse.

[Razor]

Originally Posted by pete55

Isn't it about time Sequential gearshifts were bought in. That would solve a lot of the problems.

I agree. When HSVDT had their chat with Garth thing on their website (was a chatroom with Tander and had a webcam of him) I asked him his opinion of a motor bike style gearbox and he said the H gear is still good but I think a sequential gearbox would be good step in cost cutting.

[1200Datto27]

Originally Posted by billybob

I'm picking there is nothing wrong with the gear sets, I think more than likely the promblem is how the gear cut was set up not allowing enough time for the driver to change gears as changing from 3rd to 4th takes longer as it is across the gate,

Actually, most manual gearbox'es have 3-4 in the same plane, including the hollinger boxes used in V8SC's. 3-4 is also usually the quickest shift in the box as it's a straight pull though the center gate.

[aj_308]

I thought I was going nuts for a second there..

[billy bigtime]

The only problem with the gearboxes, is which ones go into Skaifes car and which one goes into Todds car.

[pplater]

The NC Monaro (of Bathurst 24hr fame) ran a V8SC Hollinger six speed with a sequential shifter.

The drivers thought very highly of it.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by 1200Datto27

Are they all using the Hollinger internals though? some teams run Modena gearsets, I've heard that couple use gearsets out of Europe (Quaife or X-Trac) as well as using custom links/selectors in the boxes. Without knowing how the internals are built and assembled, it is difficult to diagnose the causes. It may just be that due to the way that the 3-4 change is aligned through neutral in the HRT cars, combined with Todds seating position, he puts more load onto 4th when he changes gear.

It is odd that the gearboxes in the #22 car keep failing...

There are many schools of thought around about the failures... some suggest it is driver-related (like Rusty's magic double gear pull that nobody else in the world can manage except him!) and doing something odd to the gearbox...

... while another view from somewhere else suggested that perhaps something is not perfectly aligned in the #22 car and the gearbox isnt sitting perfectly in connection with the shift mechanism... so that there is load on the box itself all the time that is causing gears to 'lean' on each other more than the design constraints....

If it were both HRT cars with the failures, you could easily conclude that there was some gear hotrodding that wasnt working properly... but the team boss has no issue with his....

[ff s conscience]

I'm not really into the V8's, but the technical aspects like this interest me...

So Holinger (one L) boxes are controlled... but the gears are free (Modena do them too).. is that correct? I know ratios are controlled too... but the gear shape and cut and that of the dog rings and selectors is free... yes?

I went to Holinger today.... Second time I've been, I had a guided tour last time... fascinating place. 80% of production is exported too....

[1200Datto27]

FF s,

I believe that is correct to a point, in that the dimensions of the gearbox are specified (remember the hoohaa at Puke in 04 when LP and another team rocked up with the new RD6 Holinger gearboxes, that didn't fit the dimensions) including some internal specs like bearing design and location, gear ratio and engagement method and a few other technical items. I believe that it is possible that a team could either build a complete gearbox inhouse and use it, or have another company like X-Trac make it, but that buying goods "off the shelf" from Holinger and Modena et al works out to be a more efficient way of doing so.

With the export of Holinger parts, I find it funny how many people are willing to spend money for gearsets supposedly made in Japan, just because they have a Japanese brand name on them, and will not even think about using a Holinger set, when in all likelyhood, they are a Holinger gearset rebadged.

[kmsport]

Originally Posted by billybob

I'm picking there is nothing wrong with the gear sets, I think more than likely the promblem is how the gear cut was set up not allowing enough time for the driver to change gears as changing from 3rd to 4th takes longer as it is across the gate, on saying that that wasn't kelly's problem he lifted the gear lever out of the selector whist it was still in gear if he had selected an other gear he would have blown the gearbox up, there is a spring on the lever to stop you from doing this but some drivers are just to aggresive. This box needs this spring because to select reverse you have to lift the gearlever and put it in 5th to get reverse.

From an engineering point of view.....billybob has stated the reason. He knows it, I know it, and the teams know it.
QED

[00 XR8]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

If it were both HRT cars with the failures, you could easily conclude that there was some gear hotrodding that wasnt working properly... but the team boss has no issue with his....

You are more than likely correct, but looking at it the other way, it is not unfathomable that any newly developed gear box internals would only be put in one of the two cars first time out. Not to say that they are treating Todd as a test mule, but there is always risk in racing new bits, which with the testing restrictions, can't always be track tested before they are raced.

Hence, you wouldn't run both cars unless you knew you had almost assured reliability. And if you do have three failures in that first meeting............ you would certainly have those bits out of the car for Winton............. and presto no failures.

I would be very suprised if the Winterbottom problem has anything to do with the HRT one also..........

[dirttrack]

Story has the minimum gear weights being set at a weight a lot lower than when they leave the modena or hollinger factory mainly being a result of the HRT/HMS
machine shop machining out way more weight than nature ever intended.

[RotorFan]

Originally Posted by pete55

Isn't it about time Sequential gearshifts were bought in. That would solve a lot of the problems.

Definitely not. Would you have them using ABS too?

Fascinating discussion I need to learn more about transmissions.