[Team] Mercedes: Will they ever dominate again?

[chillibowl]

When was Merc last beaten in quali by a customer team?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

When was Merc last beaten in quali by a customer team?

McLaren, Brazil 2012? Hamilton got pole and Button won the race.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

When was Merc last beaten in quali by a customer team?

14 November 2020

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

14 November 2020

Yes, I stand corrected. Stroll got Pole.

[chillibowl]

Yes good call. I should have remembered as i was going off at the time about 1st Canadian on pole since JV.

Nando in the dry though and Russell into q3 (also on mediums?).

We know Mercs issues are not driver/Ham related and todays performances would suggest the engine is not pants.

So Mercs issues are chassis and set up. The rake and lack of updates no doubt puts them behind RB, but one also gets the sense the team is a bit lost in the woods in terms of figuring out the right set up?

Probably reading too much into it.

[S griffin]

Heard an interesting fact yesterday, this year is the first time Merc have gone four races without a win the hybrid era. So shows that it won't be easy for them anyone

[john ruston]

Why not wait until September to see if Merc fail this year before jumping to conclusions
Should they stop competing this year and throw all their efforts into next years car and it works dominating the next five years the one year blip will be worthwhile!

[V8 Fireworks]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Why not wait until September to see if Merc fail this year before jumping to conclusions
Should they stop competing this year and throw all their efforts into next years car and it works dominating the next five years the one year blip will be worthwhile!

With a budget cap, Mercedes can't just throw more money at it than everyone else (even more than Red Bull or Ferrari) like they used to, so it could be promising for everyone else.

[S griffin]

There may be a long way to go, but the way RBR are on a roll means Merc really need to get their finger out

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by john ruston

Should they stop competing this year and throw all their efforts into next years car and it works dominating the next five years the one year blip will be worthwhile!

Toto has been on record a few times now saying that there will be no upgrades for the remainder of the season.

this of course may be gamesmanship but i suspect you are correct. they are looking towards the next 5 years.

Originally Posted by V8 Fireworks

With a budget cap, Mercedes can't just throw more money at it than everyone else (even more than Red Bull or Ferrari) like they used to, so it could be promising for everyone else.

not enough talk about the budget cap imo. any institution losing a few hundred million in annual spending has to be experiencing a lot of adjustments.

honestly i am quite surprised that the top teams are not struggling more. perhaps that is a testament to their ability to prepare but imo i think it just highlights how much money was being wasted on very small gains.

[crmalcolm]

Mercedes & Kingspan end sponsorship deal

"Both parties have subsequently concluded that it is not appropriate for the partnership to move forward at the current point in time," said Mercedes.

"We have therefore agreed that it will be discontinued with immediate effect."

[GTRMagic]

The numbers spoken around this were not insignificant... that MercedesF1 has walked away may not preclude another team from chasing them for a deal..

[S griffin]

Merc did the right thing here, this sponsorship deal, no matter what the intentions was going to be a PR disaster if they continued

[Aysedasi]

A PR disaster yes, but made so largely by social media ignorance and the UK's increasingly more appalling and destructive approach to news journalism....

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

A PR disaster yes, but made so largely by social media ignorance and the UK's increasingly more appalling and destructive approach to news journalism....

Plus politicians desire to rake up publicity about something to divert our attention away from what is really happening!

[Adam43]

And within a day or two of where the government was criticized for its handling of the whole thing. Bit rich would be a generous view of it. And if the government is so bothered about it why can they still trade?

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Plus politicians desire to rake up publicity about something to divert our attention away from what is really happening!

Yeah, they're certainly no angels, but over the last 2 years, news journalists have stopped actually broadcasting news for our information. Now they broadcast their views and have so called experts on tap (like the hideous Peston creature) to push the knife in that little bit deeper. They no longer wish to just inform.

[bella]

remember the 24 hour news culture creates the false impression that news that we all need to know about is happening in the first place... it isn't and people have wild ideas about what they actually need to know about anyway.

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Mercedes & Kingspan end sponsorship deal

"Both parties have subsequently concluded that it is not appropriate for the partnership to move forward at the current point in time," said Mercedes.

"We have therefore agreed that it will be discontinued with immediate effect."

this was the right decision. the only conclusion to come to is that due diligence at the team/mercedes is entirely done by white people of a certain age who are disproportionately not affected by the grenfell tragedy and the culture that created it.

you can't look at it and say "well their products were used against recommendations" or with any benefit of the doubt because from a human perspective the entire situation is abhorrant. it creates strong reactions. there's no way this would have resulted in good PR as soon as they made it public. i can only assume that because the company were due to be involved in a building project, the deal came to the team commercial dept as something that was part of a negotiated contract that they didn't have the opportunity to question or argue against.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by bella

remember the 24 hour news culture creates the false impression that news that we all need to know about is happening in the first place... it isn't and people have wild ideas about what they actually need to know about anyway.

Exactly right bella. One of the reasons why I now actively avoid watching the 'news' much of the time.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Yeah, they're certainly no angels, but over the last 2 years, news journalists have stopped actually broadcasting news for our information. Now they broadcast their views and have so called experts on tap (like the hideous Peston creature) to push the knife in that little bit deeper. They no longer wish to just inform.

I would say it has been going on for at least the last 10 years. ''News'' has become agenda driven and heavily editorialised, with impartial journalism being replaced by personal opinion and presented as fact/news.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by bella

...the only conclusion to come to is that due diligence at the team/mercedes is entirely done by white people of a certain age who are disproportionately not affected by the grenfell tragedy and the culture that created it...

doubt they would have announced this sponsor in time for the British GP.

for sure one could say its just the timing of the deal and it just happened to coincide with a race which was rightly but conveniently drawing social media attention towards human rights issues?

or no doubt greenfell paid a premium to get on the car near the end of a championship season and for a couple of 'prestige races' but that even makes it worse...it means they just did it for the money.

but the black car, the team and company's attempt at building a platform of social accountability over the past couple of years...seems odd that they would risk that platform at all in the first place?

sounds cynical to say but the socially responsibly platform is, going forward, surely the more lucrative space with which to draw in future sponsors and thus more money from no?

anyways, just an all round weird choice by Merc imo.

[Mike Harte]

Chilli, Grenfell is a tower block in London that was engulfed in fire. I am not aware whether a original cause has been established yet, but the inferno, and that is what it became, ended with the loss of, I think, about 70 lives and the fire was made impossible to fight because the flames travelled up the cladding surrounding the building. The cladding was supposedly approved, but lies were told by the manufacturers about it's fire retardant features, and governments, both national and local had watered down building regulations and possibly looked the other way.

This company's cladding was used by another company on a small part of the cladding, and, it is claimed, without the knowledge of the manufacturer.

[chillibowl]

indeed...thats what i am saying.

why is Merc taking on a sponsor currently on the wrong side of a corporate and gov't responsibility scandal?

even if its just about how this company is perceived or even if the public are misdirecting their anger , why is Merc giving them a platform?.

its an odd choice given their recent advocacy on other social issues.

[bella]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

why is Merc taking on a sponsor currently on the wrong side of a corporate and gov't responsibility scandal?

even if its just about how this company is perceived or even if the public are misdirecting their anger , why is Merc giving them a platform?.

both the company and mercedes go over that in their press releases.

them having their names on the car isn't a we give you money you put decal on job, it's one of those things where they provide services for other parts of the business (sustainability, apparently), and they get to call themselves a partner of a f1 team.

i think unfortunately rather a lot of companies who do the building sustainability stuff tend to have their fingers in the cladding pie, and building cladding is a very very touchy subject in the uk at the moment if not with people connected to grenfell then with those living in flats they're unable to sell or remortgage because the building has some form of cladding on it.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by bella

both the company and mercedes go over that in their press releases.

them having their names on the car isn't a we give you money you put decal on job, it's one of those things where they provide services for other parts of the business (sustainability, apparently), and they get to call themselves a partner of a f1 team.

i think unfortunately rather a lot of companies who do the building sustainability stuff tend to have their fingers in the cladding pie, and building cladding is a very very touchy subject in the uk at the moment if not with people connected to grenfell then with those living in flats they're unable to sell or remortgage because the building has some form of cladding on it.

Yes I recently learnt that cladding is a term the industry prefers not to use any more.

'Building Envelope solution' or 'Drywall Thermal protection' sound much more impressive.....