[Team] 2020 Season Launch/Pre-Season Testing

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Impressive isn't it? Day 1 and they're piling in the laps - pretty much all teams breaking the 100 lap barrier at this stage.

and looks like they will all break 100 laps again today. heck, LH put in 100 just in the morning.

the level of preparation across all the teams is extremely impressive. again its early but im hoping this means we are in for a very competitive year.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by wnut

Racing Point and Williams seem to have made the biggest gains.

Originally Posted by S griffin

A lot of talk about how similar the Racing Point is to the Merc of last year or this year. Maybe it’s a sign of their intentions. I can see them moving up the grid this season

about time the Merc customer teams took better advantage of their power plant and whatever other technical input being offered by the leading team of this era. i hope it works for RP and i hope it is enough to convince Williams that this is the way forward for underfunded teams.

at least a short term solution as they try to move back up the field.

(getting way ahead of things)if RP can challenge for the occasional podium and if they can carry that momentum into next year's cost cap formula, then its a whole new ball game.

Originally Posted by Skam85

Ferrari shone in testing last year.

title is far from inked

right! perhaps Ferrari are the ones sandbagging this year. lots of C3 and the harder C2 runs (possibly with heavy fuel) so who knows where they, or RB, are at relative to Merc.

[steve nielsen]

Originally Posted by Skam85

Ferrari shone in testing last year.

title is far from inked

Ferrari AND Alfa

[Akrapovic]

That steering system is very cool and absolutely going to be banned. It's up there with the third pedal and mass damper, where they're clearly legal, but theres going to be something which it gets banned under but it doesn't make sense.

Very cool system. Surprised Merc showed it off on camera that early.

[Armco Bender]

Standard features on a Lada,a loose steering wheel and wobbly front wheels.

[P38 in workshop]

From the video I have seen of the Mercedes steering system I can't see how you could ban it-the direction in which the wheels point is controlled by moving the steering wheel.A good bit of lateral thinking by Mercedes and I have no doubt that every engineer at the other teams will be looking for hairs to split in the wording of the rules,or worse,referring to the "spirit of the rules" and trying to justify a protest.Sufficiently vigorous effort might enable them to deflect the obvious question "why did they think of it and not us"?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Armco Bender

Standard features on a Lada,a loose steering wheel and wobbly front wheels.

[MCWB]

Originally Posted by Greem

Obvious headline: "Was ist DAS?"

Fantastic!

[Greem]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That steering system is very cool and absolutely going to be banned. It's up there with the third pedal and mass damper, where they're clearly legal, but theres going to be something which it gets banned under but it doesn't make sense.

I'm not so sure TBH. I think a bit like the original Super Aguri double deck diffuser which Honda & Brawn inherited and developed, if something spurious doesn't see it banned by the second test it'll be with us all season and every other team will be pushing to develop their own while simultaneously trying to get it banned.

It won't be on the cars next year as a moving steering wheel, that's for sure. But the concept exists, like brake balance, so I can see it being integrated into cockpits as a shift handle if it is allowed to remain.

The primary reason I can see for outlawing it is one of safety. Simply making a rule that the steering column must be fixed, in terms of fore and aft movement, is a simple fix - if a fix is needed.

[Richard C]

Also, Mercedes claims they have kept the FIA technical team in the loop as to the system. So it should not be a surprise to anyone other than the other teams. Now, the question is how loud might they complain. But it appears to be legal.

My guess, it will remain for this season. Potentially go away in 2021.

Richard

[S griffin]

We all like a bit of innovation, so full marks to Merc for thinking of this. Of course things like this have the potential to spiral out of control, so I’m sure the FIA will be monitoring to make sure it doesn’t get silly

[wnut]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

From the video I have seen of the Mercedes steering system I can't see how you could ban it-the direction in which the wheels point is controlled by moving the steering wheel.A good bit of lateral thinking by Mercedes and I have no doubt that every engineer at the other teams will be looking for hairs to split in the wording of the rules,or worse,referring to the "spirit of the rules" and trying to justify a protest.Sufficiently vigorous effort might enable them to deflect the obvious question "why did they think of it and not us"?

Camber and toe are suspension settings, so they are adjusting suspension settings on the move, which is illegal.

Could possibly argue that toe varies according to steering angle (Ackerman steering principle) and therefore this system is just a variation and therefore it is legal.

Going to be interesting to see what happens, really nice thinking though.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Also, Mercedes claims they have kept the FIA technical team in the loop as to the system. So it should not be a surprise to anyone other than the other teams. Now, the question is how loud might they complain. But it appears to be legal.

My guess, it will remain for this season. Potentially go away in 2021.

Richard

but is it a surprise to Brawn/FOM who i believe now have more latitude in interpreting what falls within the spirit of the rules? rather this is not just an issue of whether or not something is technically legal or not.

so in the lead up to next year's cost cap and new design philosophy, FOM may have to show a heavy hand in order to set the standard that they want to see followed for next season.

or perhaps they may love this idea. i dont know how much it would cost for the other teams to develop it. maybe its cheap or maybe such mechanical solutions will aid with the following/turbulent air problem. im not sure what effect this tire movement will have on tire life but maybe this is exactly the type of innovations FOM is looking for more of?

money vs innovation with a good dose of politics involved...very happy F1 is back!

[P38 in workshop]

Originally Posted by wnut

Camber and toe are suspension settings, so they are adjusting suspension settings on the move, which is illegal.

Could possibly argue that toe varies according to steering angle (Ackerman steering principle) and therefore this system is just a variation and therefore it is legal.

Going to be interesting to see what happens, really nice thinking though.

To get to the kernel of the matter,I would suggest that what they are doing is moving the steering wheel to change the direction in which the wheels point.Would you seriously suggest that it is outside the rules to do such a thing?

[wnut]

Originally Posted by P38 in workshop

To get to the kernel of the matter,I would suggest that what they are doing is moving the steering wheel to change the direction in which the wheels point.Would you seriously suggest that it is outside the rules to do such a thing?

Guess you could go with that one, next is going to be should the steering wheel be able to move fore and aft, can we use it to stiffen up the dive under braking too?

Personally, I hope that the "we didn't think of this idea" contingent fail to get it banned, at least its something new.

[bjohnsonsmith]

We haven't had anything like this since 2010, when the double-diffuser and McLaren's F-duct were subsequently banned for the following season. It'll be interesting to see if this meets with a similar fate.

[Compromised]

Even if it's "legal" they will find a way to ban it. Just history repeating...

[wnut]

This article speculates that the DAS device is regulating the camber of the wheels which would make far more sense than regulating the toe.

https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-say...is-weird-67989

Headline is Vettel saying that the system looks difficult to control, preparing the ground for a ban for safety reasons?

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

This article speculates that the DAS device is regulating the camber of the wheels which would make far more sense than regulating the toe.

https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-say...is-weird-67989

Headline is Vettel saying that the system looks difficult to control, preparing the ground for a ban for safety reasons?

I've watched a couple of videos explaining what's going on and they say it is the toe that's being altered.

https://youtu.be/U_uKHNJLSQs

https://youtu.be/2s7ScavfXwE

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

This article speculates that the DAS device is regulating the camber of the wheels which would make far more sense than regulating the toe.

https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-say...is-weird-67989

Headline is Vettel saying that the system looks difficult to control, preparing the ground for a ban for safety reasons?

I think driver changes to suspension (such as camber) might be illegal. Now you could argue "toe" changes is the same, but what they are doing is "steering" the wheels which is allowed.

I can see that "safety" is the easy way to try to ban it.

Richard

[peebee2]

I think it’s pretty clear that it changes toe and not camber. Changing toes has a clear affect on acceleration and top speed...

[E.B]

Originally Posted by wnut

Camber and toe are suspension settings, so they are adjusting suspension settings on the move, which is illegal.

Could possibly argue that toe varies according to steering angle (Ackerman steering principle) and therefore this system is just a variation and therefore it is legal.

Going to be interesting to see what happens, really nice thinking though.

I thought it was illegal for the pit wall to make adjustments remotely.
You say adjusting suspension settings on the move is illegal..... how do they get round that with their adjustable roll bars as found/used in every category of racing from F1 down? Technically that is adjusting the suspension. Not trying to pick a fight, just an observation.

[peebee2]

Adjustable roll bars were banned about 30 years ago!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by wnut

This article speculates that the DAS device is regulating the camber of the wheels which would make far more sense than regulating the toe.

https://formulaspy.com/f1/vettel-say...is-weird-67989

Headline is Vettel saying that the system looks difficult to control, preparing the ground for a ban for safety reasons?

I was pretty sure it was camber in the videos but people who are smarter than me say it's the toe.

I still think this will be banned.

This is how the mass damper was banned. Keep in mind that the mass damper wasn't even exposed to the outside air and they still argued it was an aerodynamic device.

While its view in the past had been that they do not contravene the technical regulations, recent evidence and an escalation in development by some teams has made it clear to us that the principle purpose of these devices is to improve the aerodynamic performance of the car".

The FIA insisted that the regulations demand that any part of the car that influences its aerodynamic performance must remain fixed and immobile in relation to the sprung mass. Mass dampers directly influence the ride high and with that downforce and loading of the tire contact patch. Device potentially permitted the use of stiffer suspension settings and can be seen to indirectly influence the aerodynamic performance of the car. FIA technical regulations are specific in this area:

3.15 Aerodynamic influence :
With the exception of the cover described in Article 6.5.2 (when used in the pit lane) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance :
- Must comply with the rules relating to bodywork.
- Must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom).
- Must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.
Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances.
No part having an aerodynamic influence and no part of the bodywork, with the exception of the skid block in 3.13 above, may under any circumstances be located below the reference plane

You could sensibly argue that the steering wheel has to rotate and that's fine. But the fore and aft movement is not a requirement.

It's a brilliant system. But I don't see it lasting.

[Casper]

That the supposed pinnacle of motor racing might ban this innovation makes me sad. There is now no possibility of F1 engineers being allowed to innovate at all so why bother. In fact F1 is a dead end as far as innovation is concerned nowadays where it used to pride itself on new ideas that the teams came up with. Did someone say a spec racing series??