CRC Motorsport - positives & negatives

[Shoreboy57]

Originally Posted by mikuni

Are you able to give any information on how this is measured? I've always wondered about this. I watched the TRS (and enjoyed it) recorded on mysky. Would that show up as being viewed to the people watching us?

Television audiences are measured independently by the Nielsen company. In a nutshell, a number of homes (I think around 600), which are selected to be representative of the population as a whole, have set-top boxes which record what channel the televison(s) in the household are on. Members of the household you a remote device to log whether or not they are in the room where the TV(s) are. This data downloads to Nielsen daily to dtermine viewership and ratings for the braodcatsres, ad agencies and their clients. The devices can also monitor whether a programme has been recorded on MySy and viewed at a later date.
So no, your viewing of a programme does not affect the ratings (unless you are a Nielsen household), but someone out there is 'representing' you in the same way of any properly designed statistical survey. While quite reliable (the same methodology is used in most countries), the smaller the audience, the less statistically reliable the data can be

[socram]

Aah! Statistics... It would be interesting to know how many of the 600 homes have motorsport enthusiasts. One can only assume that some sort of statistical analysis was applied when selecting the 600 homes, on their likes and dislikes, not just of sport, but of the types of programmes they normally watch. Meaning that the true sample is very small indeed and flawed from the outset, so the margin of error could be even higher than normal.

One also presumes that Neilsen will also randomly telephone poll to check their figures.

Even amongst enthusiasts, the spread of interests is huge. For every person who thinks drifting is the bees knees, or classics or TRS or any other class, even without jet boating and bikes, there are going to be far more who don't watch.

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

Television audiences are measured independently by the Nielsen company. In a nutshell, a number of homes (I think around 600), which are selected to be representative of the population as a whole, have set-top boxes which record what channel the televison(s) in the household are on. Members of the household you a remote device to log whether or not they are in the room where the TV(s) are. This data downloads to Nielsen daily to dtermine viewership and ratings for the braodcatsres, ad agencies and their clients. The devices can also monitor whether a programme has been recorded on MySy and viewed at a later date.
So no, your viewing of a programme does not affect the ratings (unless you are a Nielsen household), but someone out there is 'representing' you in the same way of any properly designed statistical survey. While quite reliable (the same methodology is used in most countries), the smaller the audience, the less statistically reliable the data can be

Nigel may be better able to answer this question, however I understood the number of set top boxes is far greater than merely 600 units.

If it was a mere 600 units then AC Nielsen would have to be able to measure the likes and dislikes of all 600 viewer house holders and factor that into some cute algorithm, as such a small sample could easily skew the real numbers watching a non mainstream sport such as motor racing.

[Shoreboy57]

Don't shoot the messenger I was just answering a question which, as I work in the industry I'm in a position to do so.

Sorry to disappoint you Messers Socaram and Petch but 600 households it is (there are slightly more tvs to factor in multiple sets in household) which equals around 1500 viewers. While an establishment survey is used to identify a representative profile of NZ across a range of interests / lifestyles and the panel who have peoplemeters in their homes is then selected to match that, at the end of the day the ratings system is fundamentally a tool to sell advertising space - the analysis works relatively well for key demographics / psychographics, less so for minority interests.

At the risk of turning this thread into a debate on tv rating methodology you can read more at

http://www.thinktv.co.nz/about-tv/th...nding-tv-data/

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

Don't shoot the messenger I was just answering a question which, as I work in the industry I'm in a position to do so.

Sorry to disappoint you Messers Socaram and Petch but 600 households it is (there are slightly more tvs to factor in multiple sets in household) which equals around 1500 viewers. While an establishment survey is used to identify a representative profile of NZ across a range of interests / lifestyles and the panel who have peoplemeters in their homes is then selected to match that, at the end of the day the ratings system is fundamentally a tool to sell advertising space - the analysis works relatively well for key demographics / psychographics, less so for minority interests.

At the risk of turning this thread into a debate on tv rating methodology you can read more at

http://www.thinktv.co.nz/about-tv/th...nding-tv-data/

So how can a TV channel quote 280,000 viewers for one programme?

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

Don't shoot the messenger I was just answering a question which, as I work in the industry I'm in a position to do so.

Sorry to disappoint you Messers Socaram and Petch but 600 households it is (there are slightly more tvs to factor in multiple sets in household) which equals around 1500 viewers. While an establishment survey is used to identify a representative profile of NZ across a range of interests / lifestyles and the panel who have peoplemeters in their homes is then selected to match that, at the end of the day the ratings system is fundamentally a tool to sell advertising space - the analysis works relatively well for key demographics / psychographics, less so for minority interests.

At the risk of turning this thread into a debate on tv rating methodology you can read more at

http://www.thinktv.co.nz/about-tv/th...nding-tv-data/

The TV game is fickle and brutal, and we live and die by ratings.... AC Nielsen provide the Networks with rating figures which in turn have an influence on advertising revenue. CRC Motorsport is fortunate to have a loyal fan base and the support of CRC. Mark is correct that 600 measuring devices are used to calculate the viewing figures... it's all based on percentages... some may say this form of measurement is inaccurate and archaic but it is what it is and we have worked with this system for years. Hope this helps.

[Shoreboy57]

Originally Posted by raymond

So how can a TV channel quote 280,000 viewers for one programme?

The 600 households are a sample! Just like in any survey, you can then extrapolate the results against the whole population. Just like all the political poll etc.

So if 10% of adults in the households with the people meter sets watch a programme you can, if your sample is representative, claim, with a high degree of confidence that 10% of adults in all households with televisions watched that programme (with a margin for error etc). Given we know how many adults there are, you can convert that % to a figure of x thousand. Its not perfect, simply statistics 101.

On a better note I have to say the CRC audiences as measured are pretty good and show the pent up demand for sport on free-to-air TV

[Armco Bender]

I have to say the CRC audiences as measured are pretty good and show the pent up demand for sport on free-to-air TV

It could also mean the brain dead masses watching peasant TV on a Sunday afternoon dont want to watch some naff house building programme on TV1,or Home and Away omnimbus on TV2.
TRS on Sky TV is repeated 100 times at all hours of the day and night on different channels,so no wonder no big audience watch it at any one time.
If the ad breaks on Sky TV get any longer soon they wont have any room for the programmes.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

The 600 households are a sample! Just like in any survey, you can then extrapolate the results against the whole population. Just like all the political poll etc.

So if 10% of adults in the households with the people meter sets watch a programme you can, if your sample is representative, claim, with a high degree of confidence that 10% of adults in all households with televisions watched that programme (with a margin for error etc). Given we know how many adults there are, you can convert that % to a figure of x thousand. Its not perfect, simply statistics 101.

On a better note I have to say the CRC audiences as measured are pretty good and show the pent up demand for sport on free-to-air TV

Shoreboy

Thanks for the great explanation... excellent..

[raymond]

Originally Posted by Shoreboy57

The 600 households are a sample! Just like in any survey, you can then extrapolate the results against the whole population. Just like all the political poll etc.

So if 10% of adults in the households with the people meter sets watch a programme you can, if your sample is representative, claim, with a high degree of confidence that 10% of adults in all households with televisions watched that programme (with a margin for error etc). Given we know how many adults there are, you can convert that % to a figure of x thousand. Its not perfect, simply statistics 101.

On a better note I have to say the CRC audiences as measured are pretty good and show the pent up demand for sport on free-to-air TV

Yeah; understand all that. I dredged up the Statistics courses I did at University. So my guess is that 280,000 is a best guess, confirms what I thought. but my school cert maths tells me that if we use a base of 600, then each house with a TV had at least 40? adults watching?? I'm missing something here...

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by raymond

Yeah; understand all that. I dredged up the Statistics courses I did at University. So my guess is that 280,000 is a best guess, confirms what I thought. but my school cert maths tells me that if we use a base of 600, then each house with a TV had at least 40? adults watching?? I'm missing something here...

Raymond... I agree ratings can be difficult to understand but the numbers Nielsen provide are gospel... the fact is no is watching TRS on Sky, which is a shame.

[promax]

Originally Posted by raymond

So how can a TV channel quote 280,000 viewers for one programme?

witchcraft

[socram]

Oh dear Raymond. If you use the term sampling, rather than statistics, you might understand it better.

Quite simply, if we examine every single item off a production line for quality, we may get a reject percentage of 0.1% - true, from 1,000 widgets examined.

However, a lot of time and effort, not to mention cost, to reject 0.1% of our widgets, may not be very cost effective, so it make sense to test only a sample. If we test just 10, and multiply the results by 100, we may or may not pick up a faulty item, therefore, we can say with a high degree of confidence, that the batch is OK, but we have a margin of error which is quite high. There is a formula, so we state that the batch is probably OK but the margin of error may be plus or minus 5%. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact formula!)

If we test 100, rather than 10, we may still get a 100% pass, (or not) but the margin of error is considerably reduced by taking the larger sample. It may be plus or minus 2%.

I'd suggest that the Neilsen sample is quite small, therefore the margin of error is quite high. Does that explain it? Quite simply, Neilsen will just multiply their readings to extrapolate a set of numbers, but they are subject to a margin of error, which could mean 200,000 people watching or 250,000. (Figures only used as an example.)

Always cracks me up when they do the political party polls. "The ACT party is polling at 2% with a margin of error of plus/minus 3%". So, they may actually be getting 5% - or minus 1%... Quite how you poll -1% I'm not too sure. Maybe Toymotor would know?

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Raymond... I agree ratings can be difficult to understand but the numbers Nielsen provide are gospel... the fact is no is watching TRS on Sky, which is a shame.

Nigel From memory the only really strong AC Nielsen's rating Sky has for any of their motorsport coverage is for the annual Bathurst 1000, is that correct?

If so, that rather suggest's that while Kiwi armchair sports fan's are interested in watching big Iconic events motorsport events like Bathurst on Sky Television, they are not interested in run of the mill motor racing at any price.

As an aside, its been very interesting even enlightening working with Ssangyong this season, as apart from Rick and Deon Cooper there is very little motor racing culture in their staff and most of their dealers, however, because of the free to air TV coverage of the Series, the positive feedback the dealers are getting from the public that have seen some of the racing on the CRC motorsport show and happen to walk onto their car-yards is staggering.

I have to confess I had no idea that the Ssangyong racing Series would achieve the cut-through it has, and the interest it has generated.

We have 28 SRS utes going to Timaru and 29 to Ruapuna when Matt Wallace's ute is' back on the road', after a very heavy frontal hit.

I received an email from the Wallace Team today distressed that they couldn't get their DAY ITM Ute fixed in time to get down to Timaru because they feel they are letting the Series down! That in itself say's it all to me, they all love just being involved, frankly I am humbled. There I have said it. its been an unforgettable last 6 months, and with what we have in the pipeline for the Series it can only get better.

[CDM]

Getting back on topic, I would have thought that 600 homes out of the 4+ million people that live in NZ would be a pretty poor strike rate. I realise from your post that that's the way its always been, but I guess I'm just surprised at the low % when as Nigel says that shows live & die by these ratings...

[promax]

It will be interesting to see how many people will buy a ticket to watch the ssangyong utes... now ST has pulled out. Any predictions.?

[CDM]

Originally Posted by promax

It will be interesting to see how many people will buy a ticket to watch the ssangyong utes... now ST has pulled out. Any predictions.?

With all due respect there is already a separate thread for your SARS series

[mikuni]

Originally Posted by promax

It will be interesting to see how many people will buy a ticket to watch the ssangyong utes... now ST has pulled out. Any predictions.?

My prediction is zero, but apparently lots of people want to watch them on TV? Perhaps it's the novelty factor? Whether this will last or not is another thing, but so far it appears to be paying off for SsangYong, which is great for them.

[promax]

Originally Posted by CDM

With all due respect there is already a separate thread for your SARS series

I don't have a SARS series and since the series is one covered by CRC Motorsport.. I'm hardly off topic.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by promax

I don't have a SARS series and since the series is one covered by CRC Motorsport.. I'm hardly off topic.

Except I don't think you need to buy a ticket to watch it on tv...?

[woodart]

through this forum, I would be interested to know the viewing numbers and cost to tv3 of THE DIRT show that western springs speedway puts out. is it the only NZ motor racing that is on sky(pay tv) and free to air? us speedway heads are always on tv's case for more coverage, and I would like nigel from tv3 to let us know if there is any more coverage planned this season. just about all major speedway meetings are filmed and available on live streaming now, but at a cost of about $25 per night. obviously free to air would be preferable,(hint hint)

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by woodart

through this forum, I would be interested to know the viewing numbers and cost to tv3 of THE DIRT show that western springs speedway puts out. is it the only NZ motor racing that is on sky(pay tv) and free to air? us speedway heads are always on tv's case for more coverage, and I would like nigel from tv3 to let us know if there is any more coverage planned this season. just about all major speedway meetings are filmed and available on live streaming now, but at a cost of about $25 per night. obviously free to air would be preferable,(hint hint)

Hi Woodard, Speedway is always popular on CRC Motorsport and I am keen to continue our support. We have only one more show scheduled to play (Barry Butterworth meeting) If more Speedway is offered I will certainly play it. $25 per night is not cheap so I understand free to air is the preferred option.

Nige TV3

[socram]

Enjoyed the Aussie GT race and the F5000 race - as I expected to do. Just a comment though Nigel - not a criticism. Unlike Sing Song Utes, Falcodores, Porsche races, or any other one/two make racing, the diversity of the cars is what makes it so attractive for many of us.

Different classes also add value so we don't have to have that intense concentration on two or three cars at the front, to the total exclusion of interesting cars further down the list. Most of the motorsport critics who watch a lot of other sports, consider televised motorsport as boring and unfortunately, there are times when we have to agree with them. Take them along to a good race meeting and they do show some interest.

The Ginetta's in the GT series, were never shown at all and in the F5000 piece, no mention at all of the Begg's for example.

It is all very well having several interviews with drivers, but in the time available, a bit more on the different cars would have been appreciated, static or moving.

As I said. Not a criticism, but a viewpoint.

[Nigel TV3]

Originally Posted by socram

Enjoyed the Aussie GT race and the F5000 race - as I expected to do. Just a comment though Nigel - not a criticism. Unlike Sing Song Utes, Falcodores, Porsche races, or any other one/two make racing, the diversity of the cars is what makes it so attractive for many of us.

Different classes also add value so we don't have to have that intense concentration on two or three cars at the front, to the total exclusion of interesting cars further down the list. Most of the motorsport critics who watch a lot of other sports, consider televised motorsport as boring and unfortunately, there are times when we have to agree with them. Take them along to a good race meeting and they do show some interest.

The Ginetta's in the GT series, were never shown at all and in the F5000 piece, no mention at all of the Begg's for example.

It is all very well having several interviews with drivers, but in the time available, a bit more on the different cars would have been appreciated, static or moving.

As I said. Not a criticism, but a viewpoint.

Hi Socram, appreciate and value your viewpoint... I enjoyed the F5000's and yes I agree with your comments, consequently I have spoken with Phil Dark who made the show and passed on our comments... by the way... feel free to criticise... it is your right.... I have big shoulders and I have endured plenty of criticism previously (Vanishing Point!)
We have highlights from the Bathurst 12Hour on March 15.... also we have Indycars coming soon.

Cheers.. nige.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by Nigel TV3

Hi Socram, appreciate and value your viewpoint... I enjoyed the F5000's and yes I agree with your comments, consequently I have spoken with Phil Dark who made the show and passed on our comments... by the way... feel free to criticise... it is your right.... I have big shoulders and I have endured plenty of criticism previously (Vanishing Point!)
We have highlights from the Bathurst 12Hour on March 15.... also we have Indycars coming soon.

Cheers.. nige.

My only comment/criticism would be its a shame that the likes of the AGT stuff is so far out of date. Its about 3/4 of a season behind which is a shame, as its a bit more exciting & relevant when its more current