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23 Feb 2006, 10:10 (Ref:1529707) | #26 | ||
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Could BH2/1 have been the original F2 car wrecked in Hawthorne's accident and BH2/2 and BH2/3 the later (well-used) Atlantic cars?
Allen |
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23 Feb 2006, 12:22 (Ref:1529791) | #27 | ||
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ISTR that Fred Greenfield bought both works cars from Alan McCall before the 1978 season
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24 Feb 2006, 10:08 (Ref:1530550) | #28 | ||
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Further to David's point about Greenfield buying both pre 1978 season
Greenfield advertises two Tuis in Formula at the end of the 1978 season. Appears at Long Beach with one of these cars. BUT. Greenfield also appears with a Tui at the second IMSA Atlantic round in 1976 [Laguna Seca]. Does this mean he acquired one of the 1975 cars at that point [BH2/2?] and then went back for another one in late 1977? Or was this a one off drive in a McCall car? We still have much to learn about the Players' series of 1976 where there were sometimes huge entries and people we've never heard of before were running in qualifiers. It may be that Greenfield ran more pro races in 76 with a Tui but the detail of that is currently below the radar. Also, there are two Atlantic Tuis in existence from 1973 British GP. Murdoch appears in his regular "BH2" which is often described in the press, from its first Atlantic appearance in late summer 72 as the ex John Watson car. Alongside him is "BH3" as it is described, driven by one Tom Walkinshaw and described in press as 'brand new'. However, the next time the cars appear together is 1975 when McCall fields Nicholson and Lunger in the Canadian series. Chris |
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26 Feb 2006, 10:38 (Ref:1531799) | #29 | ||
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Now it gets really confusing. There seem to be two F2/Atlantic cars in 1972 after Hawthorne’s accident!
I’d always thought that Murdoch’s 1972 Atlantic car was the same as used by Watson and Dave Morgan in F2 that season. But… There are two occasions [Imola 22.7.72 and Hockenheim 30.9.72] when the car would be simultaneously practising for F2 and racing in Atlantic as Murdoch appears at Oulton Park races on both those dates. So what is this extra car? At the start of the season Bert Hawthorne is entered in Atlantic races in a “Leda 2E”, though the car doesn’t appear. I don’t think this is the same as the “Leda-Tui AM29” in which Hawthorne is killed at Hockenheim in April. It might however be the basis for the first replacement car driven by Watson in F2 at Crystal Palace and Hockenheim [June 11] with the plate given by F1R as “Leda Tui AM29-BH2”. At Rouen June 25 Watson appears with a car bearing a different plate [BH2-2]. Does this mean that Watson now has a new car, with the old one being handed over to Murdoch – and explaining why his car in 1973 is described as ex Watson F2? Or, does Watson just have one car and Murdoch the original Leda 2E? If so, in what way is Murdoch’s 1973 car ‘ex Watson’? If this is the case, what happens to Watson’s BH2 [2] because that chassis number crops up again in 1976 on Elliott Forbes-Robinson’s McCall entered car. Chris |
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26 Feb 2006, 20:53 (Ref:1532066) | #30 | ||
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There might be a clue in the fact that "Tui" and "2E" are pronounced the same...
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6 Mar 2006, 09:20 (Ref:1537128) | #31 | ||
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I've received an email indirectly from Allan McCall which says the original Tui was converted to Atlantic with a Hart BDA and was the car then loaned to Jim Murdoch, an old friend from NZ.
So it would appear that the Hawthorne F/Atl non-appearing "Leda 2E" was an intention to run the original Tui as an Atlantic and then Murdoch's appearances from late summer 1972 onwards are also the original Tui. So not ex-Watson at all. The original Tui then headed off to Switzerland less engine in 1974 for a hill climb project that never happened. Allen |
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20 Aug 2006, 19:25 (Ref:1687661) | #32 | ||
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Things you find when you're looking for something else, part 214 in a series:
Autosport 2 Nov 1989 p86: "Race of my Life" with Allan McCall recalling Tom Gloy's win in the 1977 Lady Wigram Trophy. It includes this: "This was with the Tui, one of the Formula 2 cars which I converted to Formula Atlantic spec. There were four of them originally, but one was written off when Bert Hawthorne crashed and was killed at Hockenheim back in '72. One of the cars was kept as spare parts, which I never assembled, and one we ran for John Watson in F2. The car we took to New Zealand was the second car, which we never raced in Europe". Interesting that Watson's car was not the second car. I wish someone the best of luck making sense of that. I'm sure there's sense in there, but it doesn't immediately leap out at me. |
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17 Sep 2006, 18:02 (Ref:1712427) | #33 | |
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Supernova BH3
Hello everyone, my name is Martyn Donn from the UK. I have aquired a 1973 Supernova BH3 from Mark Lawton. It has the SCCA stamp on the roll bar 33 555. It is one of the 2 cars shipped over in 1973 to support the the Can Am races at Laguna and Riverside that year. John Morrison drove the other car and we believe that this car was driven by Toby St John Matthews. It originally ran in the works colours which we believe was white. The car is complete and we are currently rebuilding the engine to original spec and intend to run it in various championship races next year (2007) here in England and Northern Europe. We would like to put the car back into its orginal colours but cant find any photographs which seems a bit strange. If anyone has a long memory and remembers this car and by some chance knows of any photographs from 1973 we would be extremely gratefull to hear from you along with any more information we can source on the car etc.
cheers all |
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19 Jan 2007, 04:02 (Ref:1819041) | #34 | ||
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I am well outside my comfort zone here but I've just found this that may or may not be of interest.
Powerside Dezember 1974 p.42 Tui Formel-2-Rennenwagen 1972/3 ex-John-Watson rollendes Chassis mit viel Zubehor. Preisbasis sFr 23 000.- Telefon 064/41 19 20 Last edited by Andrew Fellowes; 19 Jan 2007 at 04:04. |
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19 Jan 2007, 06:54 (Ref:1819071) | #35 | |
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It was actually Toby St. George Matthews. I may have one or two photos of the car but while the basic colour scheme was white, Toby elected to run a huge 'traveler’s sun' on the nose of the car, a very large intricate design that came from a guy that did travelers caravans ...
One of the races we supported was the first round of the IROC series where they used those fantastic RSR Porsches. I maybe repeating myself here but I was walking the circuit just previous to the Riverside race as Donohue was setting each of the 12 race cars up for Penske. After the championship winning Silver Cup UK series, the two SVees were flown out to LA for the final two rounds of the US Gold Cup series. Good money to be earnt as IIRC. I had to put them together under the wing of the plane that took them over LA International, get all the kit into a hire van and borrow a trailer to get to Riverside and Laguna Seca the week afterwards. Fred Opert broke the back of the trip and a very memorable adventure it was. Can't quite recall the results; 10th I think at Riverside for me, and better maybe 8th at Laguna. Toby didn't have such a good trip; no misdemeanors don't recall his placing. Will look for results again. |
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23 Jan 2007, 09:37 (Ref:1822552) | #36 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Allen PS Google doesn't translate Zubehor but my English-German dictionary says it means accessories. So rolling chassis with many spares. Last edited by allenbrown; 23 Jan 2007 at 09:41. |
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28 Mar 2007, 03:45 (Ref:1878144) | #37 | ||
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15 May 2007, 12:12 (Ref:1913869) | #38 | ||
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I think that I have worked out the saga of the 1972 Tuis in F2 and Atlantic
According to MN 27.7.72 p.18 Murdoch used the original Hawthorne FB car AM29 from 1971 in UK Atlantic in 1972. Watson is using the BH2 with an additional car completed but not yet built up. So in 1972 McCall has AM29 1971 car for Atlantic, loaned to Murdoch in late June, having first been used by Watson in F2 until the new car is built up [at least at Crystal Palace]. "BH1" retrospective appelation for the car in which Hawthorne is killed at Hockenheim BH2 [later BH2-2] Watson's 'proper' F2 car BH3 [later BH2-3] parts car In 1973 the AM29 car sits in the garage and is eventually sold off to Switzerland BH2-2 becomes Murdoch's Atlantic car [all the descriptions of it as ex Watson are in 1973] BH3 [later BH2-3] appears as a brand new car for Tom Walkinshaw at the British GP support race BH2-3 and BH2-3 are then taken to Canada 1975, with EFR using chassis 2 in 1976 and Gloy chassis 3 Chris |
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23 May 2007, 13:55 (Ref:1919567) | #39 | ||
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Good work Chris, this looks very solid.
Where does the 1970 F3 car fit in. Is that the same car as the 1971 FB car? |
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6 May 2010, 03:21 (Ref:2685113) | #40 | ||
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Klausler
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4334225590 Gloy http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4506671966 http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4506035623 I have pics of most, if not all, the drivers McCall put in his cars here in North America. Tui snaps are on the list to be dig up and put on flickr. Stay tuned, they will eventually end up in my Atlantic set. http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...7623186773769/ |
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15 May 2010, 04:24 (Ref:2690702) | #41 | ||
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Two of John Nicholson in the BH2
From Trois Rivieres in '75....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4607554861 http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4608164134 |
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18 May 2010, 05:11 (Ref:2693043) | #42 | ||
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Dave Oxton in the BH2.....1977
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617360247/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617345851/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617345661/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617345551/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617345393/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617959712/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617959636/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/46681980@N03/4617344953/ |
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18 Nov 2011, 04:14 (Ref:2988078) | #43 | |
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I didn't see it mentioned, my friend Barry Goldine from San Jose Ca. has a Tui BH3, I'm not sure which chassis number. This car has at least 3 SCCA Solo2 National Championships to it's credit.
Jesus |
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13 Mar 2012, 02:00 (Ref:3039132) | #44 | ||
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recent additions.....
Tom Gloy in the BH2...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...in/photostream EFR in the BH2.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...in/photostream http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...in/photostream chasing Gilles at Laguna Seca in '76... http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...in/photostream John Nicholson in the BH2 in '75 http://www.flickr.com/photos/4668198...in/photostream |
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22 Mar 2018, 00:07 (Ref:3809757) | #45 | |
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I recently acquired a AM29 chassis number 104 and it came with paperwork including this forum topic. I also own a Tui that I'm trying to figure what chassis it is. It lists the type as a BH and it is chassis number 003 on the tag. I've always been told it was a BH3 but I'm not sure it is. When my dad bought it from Ed Davin in the 80's he was told it was Jon Woodner's car which would make it too old to be a BH3. Is it possible there was a BH chassis? Post the number plaque tomorrow.
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22 Mar 2018, 23:09 (Ref:3809996) | #46 | |
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Number plate
https://www.flickr.com/photos/156154092@N05/40250959164/in/album-72157666991252948/# Bernard |
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14 Jun 2019, 17:45 (Ref:3910182) | #47 | |||
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Quote:
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25 Aug 2020, 12:44 (Ref:3997844) | #48 | |
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TUI drawings
i am the curator of Len Terry's drawings.
there are Tui drawings FSV dated 1972 and coded by Len as LT29 (arch motors chassis nr was AM29) if anybody is interested in these, they should contact me LEO68130 at gmail dot com |
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10 Nov 2021, 20:03 (Ref:4082668) | #49 | |
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Tui BH2 drawings
Hi fellow members, there was a thread about the Tui cars designed by Alan McCall dated 2005. I posted something about Tom Gloy racing the BH2/3 in New Zealand, on FB. Daniele Montour replied, saying she was presently sorting all drawings of the car ánd was looking for a good home for them! So my question is, if there are any members who know someone who would be interested in them. Daniele lives in Auckland these days, I could PM her for specifics and e-mail for further contact. As I use this forum sporadically, please contact me via my timeline on facebook, there is only one Ed Brunette there! Thanks.
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