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Old 29 Jul 2019, 11:58 (Ref:3920222)   #151
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Originally Posted by Taxi645 View Post
If safety would be the ultimate goal we would have an automated system for pitlanes where side by side driving is not an option. Set a certain minimum distance into which to release the driver (including reaction time). If the car in pitlane is too close the light will stay red.
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Originally Posted by TrapezeArtist View Post
What do I suggest should be done? I'm thinking out loud here, so feel free to comment but please don't flame me. In general, I think the lights or lollipop work reasonably well in most circumstances, even if there are occasional issues. They don't work well when there are lots of cars in the pitlane at once. If a lollipop man or button-pusher was diligently holding back for safety, he could easily cost his driver 10 seconds, so he won't do it. Perhaps the solution is to close the pitlane during safety and virtual safety periods?
I know it's not a competition, but TrapezeArtist's solution is far simpler, less costly, and less reliant on technology than that of Taxi645.

It's such a simple rule that (at the very least) it's used in IndyCar:

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Originally Posted by IndyCar RULEBOOK - CHAPTER 7: AT TRACK PROCEDURES
F1 being F1, if such a rule was to be adopted it would be made vastly more complex and called something completely different, but it would in essence be exactly the same thing. A bit like VSC, which could just as easily be called FCY with a hard speed limit of (say) 100kph, but no; reduce speed by 40% and drive to a delta on the steering wheel display. But that's an aside.

To implement complex technology such as the first suggestion costs money. The second one costs practically nothing. Therefore, we'll get the first one!
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 12:27 (Ref:3920224)   #152
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Not quite safety related...while none of the offs were too bad damage/debris wise, i thought the marshals did a great job in removing the cars and keeping the SC/VSC periods to a minimum.

Getting a few laps of racing in at the end was massive.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 12:36 (Ref:3920226)   #153
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Originally Posted by Greem View Post
I know it's not a competition, but TrapezeArtist's solution is far simpler, less costly, and less reliant on technology than that of Taxi645.

It's such a simple rule that (at the very least) it's used in IndyCar:



F1 being F1, if such a rule was to be adopted it would be made vastly more complex and called something completely different, but it would in essence be exactly the same thing. A bit like VSC, which could just as easily be called FCY with a hard speed limit of (say) 100kph, but no; reduce speed by 40% and drive to a delta on the steering wheel display. But that's an aside.

To implement complex technology such as the first suggestion costs money. The second one costs practically nothing. Therefore, we'll get the first one!



To be honest, closing the pitlane during SC ndeed has many advantages. I think at the moment many people like the ""random effect" the current pit under safety has since races have been so predictable the last few years.

If the 2021 rules sufficiently achieve their intention, I reckon the 2nd option gains even more merit.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 12:48 (Ref:3920231)   #154
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im not in disagreement as such, but the net result of closing the pit lane during FCY will be that teams essentially pit ASAP during a race to cover off the risk.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 14:09 (Ref:3920239)   #155
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F1 being F1, if such a rule was to be adopted it would be made vastly more complex and called something completely different, but it would in essence be exactly the same thing. A bit like VSC, which could just as easily be called FCY with a hard speed limit of (say) 100kph, but no; reduce speed by 40% and drive to a delta on the steering wheel display. But that's an aside.

To implement complex technology such as the first suggestion costs money. The second one costs practically nothing. Therefore, we'll get the first one!
Careful Greem, your cynicism is showing. And unfortunately I think you're 100% right.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 14:26 (Ref:3920245)   #156
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I am somewhat mystified about why the two Saubers weren't disqualified from the race following the Stewards finding that they had not complied with the regulations concerning the standard parameters on start settings on the mandated ECU.

To me this meant that the car should/would not have passed pre-race scrutineering if the FIA scrutineers had known about it in the first place, and instead the Stewards treated it as a false start and therefore gave a time penalty in lieu of a drive-through or stop and go penalty.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 14:52 (Ref:3920248)   #157
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I am somewhat mystified about why the two Saubers weren't disqualified from the race following the Stewards finding that they had not complied with the regulations concerning the standard parameters on start settings on the mandated ECU.

To me this meant that the car should/would not have passed pre-race scrutineering if the FIA scrutineers had known about it in the first place, and instead the Stewards treated it as a false start and therefore gave a time penalty in lieu of a drive-through or stop and go penalty.
I believe it was accepted that although they violated the regulation, it was by accident.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 14:58 (Ref:3920250)   #158
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Originally Posted by Mike Harte View Post
I am somewhat mystified about why the two Saubers weren't disqualified from the race following the Stewards finding that they had not complied with the regulations concerning the standard parameters on start settings on the mandated ECU.

To me this meant that the car should/would not have passed pre-race scrutineering if the FIA scrutineers had known about it in the first place, and instead the Stewards treated it as a false start and therefore gave a time penalty in lieu of a drive-through or stop and go penalty.
The car would have passed pre-race scrutineering because the issue with the clutch developed during the SC period. In order to overcome this issue, the clutch parameters of the cars were modified, which was deemed to be aiding the driver.

The regulation that was breached was a sporing regulation, not a technical regulation (Article 27.1), so the penalty imposed is also determined by sporting regulations.

Of the available sanction, the stewards opted for Article 38.3.(d), which is a stop-go penalty of 10 seconds.
Article 38.3 continues to read: 'If any of the four penalties above are imposed during the last three laps, or after the end of a race, Article 38.4(b) below will not apply and [30 seconds] will be added to the elapsed race
time of the driver concerned'
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 16:50 (Ref:3920259)   #159
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I appreciate that what you two above is what the FIA Stewards announced, but it's a load of bollards.

Any infringement of the rules and regulations could be considered as "aiding the driver". Whether or not Sauber were aware of the "help" that they had given their drivers, the Stewards are opening up an avenue for any team to claim that they made a genuine mistake.

And how did the changes get made? Did Sauber make the adjustments via the telemetry or did they instruct the drivers how to twiddle the knobs on their steering wheels? Both of which I thought were not allowed.

IMHO, it's about time that the FIA clamped down on these sorts of things.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 17:11 (Ref:3920262)   #160
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I appreciate that what you two above is what the FIA Stewards announced, but it's a load of bollards.

Any infringement of the rules and regulations could be considered as "aiding the driver". Whether or not Sauber were aware of the "help" that they had given their drivers, the Stewards are opening up an avenue for any team to claim that they made a genuine mistake.

And how did the changes get made? Did Sauber make the adjustments via the telemetry or did they instruct the drivers how to twiddle the knobs on their steering wheels? Both of which I thought were not allowed.

IMHO, it's about time that the FIA clamped down on these sorts of things.
Disagree. If we're using the "any infringement of the rules could be considered aiding the driver" argument to demand a full DQ, then we're DQing everyone for everything.

In reality, there are shades of grey - both in which rules are more serious to violate, and how they are violated.

The radio restriction limitations were lifted 3 years ago.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 18:00 (Ref:3920274)   #161
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But how can having a virtual launch control on a car go from being a technical to a sporting rule? This is just muddying the water.

Look, I am not trying to have a go at Sauber, per se, but I am still upset that Schumacher was permitted to keep his win when driving for Ferrari, and the scrutineers in parc ferme after the race found that the cars were both running with oversized barge-boards. But Brawn managed to convince the Stewards that it was an honest mistake. Oh, yeah! Good heavens, was that a pig I just saw, flying past the window?
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 18:12 (Ref:3920278)   #162
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There's a difference between purposely running a virtual traction control system, and having a hardware issue that required drivers to change settings, which ended up being illegal. Let's be honest - that's why they weren't DQ'd.

You probably shouldn't still be upset over a potential disqualification that was, literally, 20 years ago.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 18:50 (Ref:3920286)   #163
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The full explanation of the stewards' decision can be found here.
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 18:52 (Ref:3920288)   #164
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But how can having a virtual launch control on a car go from being a technical to a sporting rule? This is just muddying the water.
'The*clutch*is*controlled*electronically*via*the*Common*ECU.*However,*the*teams*have the*option*to*tune*some*of*the*controlling*parameters.*In*order*to*prevent*the*teams from*using*this*tuning*to*affect*the*way*in*which*the*clutch*engages*at*the*start*of*the race*in*a*way*that*could*potentially*mimic*traction*control*or*other*advantageous schemes,*the*FIA*requires*that*the*torque*in*the*clutch*matches*(within*specified*limits) the*torque*demand*as*the*driver*releases*the*clutch.*This*must*occur*within*70 milliseconds. In*the*case*of*both*cars*of*Alfa*Romeo*Racing,*the*time*that*it*took*for*the*torque*to align*with*the*torque*demand*was*close*to*200*milliseconds*and*300*milliseconds respectively.*This*provided*a*more*gradual*application*of*the*torque,*which*given*the wet*conditions*was*a*potential*advantage.*Regardless*of*whether*there*was*an*actual advantage,*the*Stewards*determined*that*this*was*a*clear*breach*of*the*guidance*given to*the*teams*as*to*how*this*would*be*adjudicated.

The*team*accepted*that*they*were*not
within*the*required*limits.*The*Stewards*accepted*the*team’s*explanation*that*the*cause of*this*was*that*they*were*caught*out*by*the*unusual*weather*conditions*and*the*fact that*they*did*not*do*any*practice*starts*under*these*climatic*conditions*and*set*the parameters*in*a*way*that*failed*to*meet*the*requirements.*'



[Not sure why the *'s are appearing - text is quoted from the FIA report.]
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 20:10 (Ref:3920303)   #165
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Usually though if it’s illegal by accident they DQ them and no more. They get a bigger penalty if it’s a blatant breach of the rules
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Old 29 Jul 2019, 21:35 (Ref:3920317)   #166
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Mercedes meltdown according to Wolff was down to Karma. He blames that everyone lost focus on the job at hand vs the 125th celebrations.

I find it hilarious that Netflix was allowed full access to Mercedes and this meltdown occurred.
This will make an awesome episode!

Anyway, Toto should not blame Karma because Netflix is clearly at fault.

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Old 30 Jul 2019, 19:03 (Ref:3920439)   #167
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Not to worry. Toto went home and Susie must have kept his karma up.. The adrenalin run must be huge..
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Old 1 Aug 2019, 13:03 (Ref:3920658)   #168
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Not sure where to put this...

https://jalopnik.com/lewis-hamilton-...age-1836868525

If true... I have to roll my eyes at this. My general thoughts on this is that if Lewis somehow had an epic drive this past weekend (fought from the back forward and won) that he would have absolutely wanted that to be part of the Netflix series and that him being sick would have just been icing on the cake. I can imagine the voice over saying... "struggling forward and making critical passes all while being so sick he wasn't sure he could even race"

However... him having a bad race... Now he wants that to not be shown and is using him being sick as the excuse? Have some self confidence Lewis! As that article says... it's ok to show that you are human.

Richard
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Old 1 Aug 2019, 15:59 (Ref:3920684)   #169
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or its good business. his brand is based on winning and image. not winning and being sick (maybe he is one of those cry baby/horrible to be around when sick type people) is not a good look right.

may seem wrong but his brand is valuable and people are fickle and its ultimately up to him to protect his own image.

glib world but in the digital age even us regular folk have to make sure we maintain tight control over our own narrative. cant tell you how many C.V.'s ive seen rejected because of what either an applicant or an applicant's 'friend' had posted them doing or saying on facebook/social media.

a sad state of affairs no doubt but it doesnt pay to show your human side.
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Old 1 Aug 2019, 16:44 (Ref:3920686)   #170
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I saw the Jalopnick article yesterday and LMAO, at the entire situation, really.

The odds that this one blight of very few on a career that includes 80 wins and counting and 5 world championships and counting will somehow be immortalized forever and that said winner / champion doesn't want it shown is comical on so many levels.

Yet, it's somewhat sad, as it's likely for years to come, to be the most memorable aspect of what was a great Grand Prix (IMHO), and perhaps the last at a great track. Too much about NOT the racing itself these days....
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Old 1 Aug 2019, 23:30 (Ref:3920741)   #171
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Shame. These kind of programmes don't work as well if they are censored.

Odd as he's let us seen many more embarrassing things

Especially as I don't think he did anything really embarrasing during the weekend.
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Old 1 Aug 2019, 23:44 (Ref:3920743)   #172
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Odd as he's let us seen many more embarrassing things
Is that his hair styles or his fashion lines?
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Old 1 Aug 2019, 23:53 (Ref:3920744)   #173
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Is that his hair styles or his fashion lines?
What are you talking about?

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/lifes...wearing-dress/
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Old 2 Aug 2019, 00:37 (Ref:3920746)   #174
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Originally Posted by Richard Casto View Post
Not sure where to put this...

https://jalopnik.com/lewis-hamilton-...age-1836868525

If true... I have to roll my eyes at this. My general thoughts on this is that if Lewis somehow had an epic drive this past weekend (fought from the back forward and won) that he would have absolutely wanted that to be part of the Netflix series and that him being sick would have just been icing on the cake. I can imagine the voice over saying... "struggling forward and making critical passes all while being so sick he wasn't sure he could even race"

However... him having a bad race... Now he wants that to not be shown and is using him being sick as the excuse? Have some self confidence Lewis! As that article says... it's ok to show that you are human.

Richard
And yet you've got someone like Mark Webber racing in the wet in Fuji 2007 vomiting in his helmet half the race and just getting on with it.

Poor Lewis had a sore throat and the whole world has to hear about it, spare me.
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Old 2 Aug 2019, 00:45 (Ref:3920747)   #175
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Now that's Aussie grit, even if he does say so himself.
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