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Old 13 Jul 2018, 11:34 (Ref:3836468)   #51
Racer65
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Racer65 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The only drivers I would ever be critical of in BTCC (and I can't recall any) would be one that was always at the back of the field and got the drive purely on money given to them by parents.

Anyone who has the talent to be in the mix regardless of funding source or someone who's at the back and funded it all themselves either directly or by knocking on the door of multiple sponsors is someone to be admired in my book.
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 12:09 (Ref:3836475)   #52
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The series has always enjoyed having gentleman drivers in it and some have been quite good, like Martin Johnson for example. Some spend most of their time at the back, but as long as they can keep it on the road and stay out of trouble, that’s ok.

That said, the quality of the grid this season and last, has been the best since the super touring days
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 12:21 (Ref:3836478)   #53
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Originally Posted by S griffin View Post
The series has always enjoyed having gentleman drivers in it and some have been quite good, like Martin Johnson for example. Some spend most of their time at the back, but as long as they can keep it on the road and stay out of trouble, that’s ok.

That said, the quality of the grid this season and last, has been the best since the super touring days
There's gentleman drivers and there's drivers who don't live up to expectations. I didn't mean to deliberately criticise or for anyone else to do likewise. This topic just happened to interest me.
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 14:46 (Ref:3836492)   #54
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hollywood has the razzies and nobody moans that mediocre films get the "attention" they deserve so why not BTCC drivers too ?


my pick mediocre drivers, how about Fiona Leggate ? when Paul ONeil took over that Astra Coupe it was near the front, and when even Jason Hughes does better than her in the old MG that should tel you something

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Old 13 Jul 2018, 15:31 (Ref:3836494)   #55
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aland should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
farique hauriman in the proton in 2004 took some beating, well he didnt. Martin Johnson did well in the old astra coupe

you can add any driver john B&Q Batchelor ran, jay wheals, richard marsh

then again there was some really slow cars at times too
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 15:32 (Ref:3836495)   #56
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Leggate best result: 10th
O'Neil best result: 8th
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 17:47 (Ref:3836515)   #57
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
best result 9th at a time when the grid barely had over 10 cars to start with...

she did get a 5th at Silverstone 05 race 2 but that was a freak result at best
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 17:57 (Ref:3836518)   #58
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Holy thread resurrection, Batman!
I didn't realise it was a resurrection at first when I clicked it. I thought it was a very odd discusson that was trying to compare drivers over 17 years and 4 different spec/regs haha
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 19:10 (Ref:3836539)   #59
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I think Fiona was alright, just O’Neill was even better. I mean, it wasn’t just the Astra he dragged up to the front of the field, it was the Integra too
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 20:19 (Ref:3836554)   #60
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I think Fiona was alright, just O’Neill was even better.
Fiona was mediocre racer plain and simple

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUmSxB-W9Kc

but avoiding being accused for misogyny , some men

how about MARK SMITH , he is know for proposing right on the BTCC grid
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 20:59 (Ref:3836560)   #61
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Fiona was mediocre racer plain and simple

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUmSxB-W9Kc

but avoiding being accused for misogyny , some men

how about MARK SMITH , he is know for proposing right on the BTCC grid


Uh, you try to prove your point, by posting a documentary of her first race meeting only, which was also the first for a bio ethanol car
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 21:17 (Ref:3836563)   #62
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billy bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbilly bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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farique hauriman in the proton in 2004 took some beating, well he didnt. Martin Johnson did well in the old astra coupe

you can add any driver john B&Q Batchelor ran, jay wheals, richard marsh

then again there was some really slow cars at times too
Andy Neate would have been pretty average on and off the track
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Old 13 Jul 2018, 21:31 (Ref:3836564)   #63
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Andy Neate could sometimes be up there like Oulton 2011, but he was way too flakey under pressure
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 08:10 (Ref:3836613)   #64
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porsche962fan should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Rick Kerry and Nick Leason ? or they get a pass due to the car ?
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 11:54 (Ref:3836635)   #65
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Bramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridBramzel should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Hollywood has the razzies and nobody moans that mediocre films get the "attention" they deserve so why not BTCC drivers too ?
Because kicking people down to make yourself feel better is pathetic...
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 15:09 (Ref:3836653)   #66
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Because kicking people down to make yourself feel better is pathetic...
actually Hollywood is a very smart thing to "reward" mediocrity , this way everyone gives their absolute best not to end up there, imagine if such "awards" would be for politicians and co
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 16:21 (Ref:3836663)   #67
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Hollywood ain't exactly the place I look for inspiration when it comes to moral examples And for politicians there are elections, those are pretty effective!
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 17:09 (Ref:3836672)   #68
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Hollywood has the razzies and nobody moans that mediocre films get the "attention" they deserve so why not BTCC drivers too ?
Because the razzies are making fun of professional film production that didn't realise how bad it was.
Not the same as pointing the finger at a self-funding driver who has tried their best, but already knows how well (or bad) they did from the time sheets.

Is calling out an amateur sports competitor from behind a keyboard tantamount to bullying? I know in recent times that certain teams on the grid have taken criticism as a personal attack.
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 17:12 (Ref:3836673)   #69
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actually Hollywood is a very smart thing to "reward" mediocrity , this way everyone gives their absolute best not to end up there,
Do you think the current bottom five in any championship are not giving their best?

How does insulting a sporting competitor "reward" them? Sounds like something from the Steve Smith manual of sporting ethics!
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 18:18 (Ref:3836682)   #70
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actually Hollywood is a very smart thing to "reward" mediocrity , this way everyone gives their absolute best not to end up there, imagine if such "awards" would be for politicians and co
Are you seriously suggesting those on the grid are not giving their best?

Reminds me of people making fun of Eddie the Eagle.
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 19:13 (Ref:3836691)   #71
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Rick Kerry and Nick Leason ? or they get a pass due to the car ?
that beemer diesel was a poorly developed dog, made the speedequipe lexus look good. can see why ngtc came in as s2000 was not working
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 19:39 (Ref:3836694)   #72
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Are you seriously suggesting those on the grid are not giving their best?

Reminds me of people making fun of Eddie the Eagle.
often their best is just not enough


work in some corporate environment and you know even trying your best will get you kicked out in a split second, HR and managers don't give a dam about you really

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Old 14 Jul 2018, 19:47 (Ref:3836695)   #73
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lol, kinda assuming I don't work in a corporate environment, but whatever.

Yeah, someones best is often not good enough, but that's not what you suggested before - you suggested people give their best. Different things. But then again I don't think the idea of this thread is based on integrity
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Old 14 Jul 2018, 21:08 (Ref:3836703)   #74
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often their best is just not enough


work in some corporate environment and you know even trying your best will get you kicked out in a split second, HR and managers don't give a dam about you really
Again, you're comparing two unrelated concepts in a veiled abuse to btcc drivers. Enter the 'corporate world' (I'd love to know how you define that) and you accept that performance dictates reward. In that world, reward is a paycheck.

In BTCC, reward is results on track. When people don't perform well, they see that in their results, not their appraisal. To sit at the keyboard and insult their efforts suggests that you would rather they didn't enter. If we follow that train of thought, then we'd see a regular withdrawal of the backmarkers (because they're doing so bad) resulting in a downward spiral of grid numbers until the championship dies. If that's what you want from btcc - carry on slating drivers, I'm sure they appreciate your critique.
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Old 15 Jul 2018, 08:40 (Ref:3836739)   #75
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I'm sure they appreciate your critique.
I am sure they have better things to do then read what various posters say on message boards including white knight wannabes

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