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Old 9 Dec 2020, 18:31 (Ref:4021799)   #26
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Oh I understood that (once again). That's why I thanked you for it. But if you cast doubt on a source then it's worth posting more sources of varied origin to cast that doubt aside.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 18:40 (Ref:4021801)   #27
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Oh I understood that (once again). That's why I thanked you for it. But if you cast doubt on a source then it's worth posting more sources of varied origin to cast that doubt aside.
I'd doubt anything the Guardian printed. And I don't read the Mail either.

I've also signed the petition.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 19:01 (Ref:4021803)   #28
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I take every paper with a pinch of salt. We may all have our preferred sources, but a range of sources have picked up on the country's views on women.

Having said that, Formula 1 has never been a series to discard a country due to its culture. Remember there was a South African Grand Prix in 1993.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 19:54 (Ref:4021809)   #29
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I take every paper with a pinch of salt. We may all have our preferred sources, but a range of sources have picked up on the country's views on women.

Having said that, Formula 1 has never been a series to discard a country due to its culture. Remember there was a South African Grand Prix in 1993.
The year the South African President and Nelson Mandela received the Nobel Peace Prize?

More concerning was a South African GP right up to and including 1985.

Formula One has certainly been tone deaf on more than one occasion.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 20:07 (Ref:4021812)   #30
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He's not really coming across as an upgrade from Grosjean or Magnussen is he?
He was never supposed to be, except financially.

And yeah, Marzipan, as commentators call him, is living the life that a lot of the instagram youths dream of. A spoiled brat. But hey, he'll be right at home when F1 gets the Grand Prix in the country where they cut journalists to pieces to bury in embassy garden. It's all part of the #WeArseAsOne media strategy!
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 20:56 (Ref:4021821)   #31
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The year the South African President and Nelson Mandela received the Nobel Peace Prize?

More concerning was a South African GP right up to and including 1985.

Formula One has certainly been tone deaf on more than one occasion.
True, although I was referring to the fact that Apartheid wasn't really over until 1994.

Re: Marzipan, I don't normally dislike any driver. Why should I? But I hope he incurs the full wrath of Gunther Steiner's potty mouth.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 22:13 (Ref:4021832)   #32
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Well, we've just finished 2 races in Bahrain. Let's not forget this.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...cision/406203/

The words spoken by Webber still have not changed and neither has F1's response to Human Rights.

Now I'll probably get hammered for this but Lewis (And all the other drivers were totally silent on the Bahrain issue)

Now Lewis is the becon of light for F1 equality. I guess you get to choose which human rights abuses you stand against, haven't heard a bad word from him regarding the Saudi GP !?!!??!
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 22:26 (Ref:4021834)   #33
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Well, we've just finished 2 races in Bahrain. Let's not forget this.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...cision/406203/

The words spoken by Webber still have not changed and neither has F1's response to Human Rights.

Now I'll probably get hammered for this but Lewis (And all the other drivers were totally silent on the Bahrain issue)

Now Lewis is the becon of light for F1 equality. I guess you get to choose which human rights abuses you stand against, haven't heard a bad word from him regarding the Saudi GP !?!!??!
Ok well I'll take you up on the "hammering" thing for two reasons.

Firstly - it's interesting that Lewis is the only one ever mentioned by name. Those who take offense to his activism and taking the knee seem unable to even name the other drivers who take the knee with him at the start of each Grand Prix. Why is Lewis singled out in this regard? And lets not pretend he's the only vocal one - Vettel is doing custom helmets and auctioning them off and giving the funds to activist charities. He's running helmets with LGBTQ+ and Transgender flags on them, taking the knee and being vocal. Why are we not calling out Seb?

Secondly - your post is a classic case of "what about isms". Lewis stands against racial inequality so now we're saying "Why isn't he standing against [insert human rights/social/environmental issue here]!?!!??!"

So is that how what we do now? We don't stand against an injustice unless we can stand against them all? Does Lewis need to protest every time an oil company has an uncontrolled hydrocarbon release into a body of water? Because they get away with that on a daily basis and that's absolutely an injustice.

There isn't enough hours in the day to stand against every issue and be at the forefront of fighting every problem. All you can do is pick the issues that are most important to you, and give your backing to the ones you cannot put your full weight behind. And Lewis does exactly that with his charity work.

And lastly - Lewis is currently only vocal about one human rights issue, and yet every time he opens his mouth, social media is filled with insufferable cretins who aren't happy with him saying people should be equal. Should he actually follow the advice of these people and campaign against every injustice they list, these people would be even more unhappy than they currently are. They don't want Lewis to fight all these causes. They're just unhappy he's fighting for one cause, but it's kinda hard to admit that.

-----

As for Webbers comment - he's not wrong. But times have changed since then. Back then, F1 refused to deal with political issues. Hence the South African GP and all that. It had an excuse then. But not now.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 22:39 (Ref:4021837)   #34
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Ok well I'll take you up on the "hammering" thing for two reasons.

Firstly - it's interesting that Lewis is the only one ever mentioned by name. Those who take offense to his activism and taking the knee seem unable to even name the other drivers who take the knee with him at the start of each Grand Prix. Why is Lewis singled out in this regard? And lets not pretend he's the only vocal one - Vettel is doing custom helmets and auctioning them off and giving the funds to activist charities. He's running helmets with LGBTQ+ and Transgender flags on them, taking the knee and being vocal. Why are we not calling out Seb?

Secondly - your post is a classic case of "what about isms". Lewis stands against racial inequality so now we're saying "Why isn't he standing against [insert human rights/social/environmental issue here]!?!!??!"

So is that how what we do now? We don't stand against an injustice unless we can stand against them all? Does Lewis need to protest every time an oil company has an uncontrolled hydrocarbon release into a body of water? Because they get away with that on a daily basis and that's absolutely an injustice.

There isn't enough hours in the day to stand against every issue and be at the forefront of fighting every problem. All you can do is pick the issues that are most important to you, and give your backing to the ones you cannot put your full weight behind. And Lewis does exactly that with his charity work.

And lastly - Lewis is currently only vocal about one human rights issue, and yet every time he opens his mouth, social media is filled with insufferable cretins who aren't happy with him saying people should be equal. Should he actually follow the advice of these people and campaign against every injustice they list, these people would be even more unhappy than they currently are. They don't want Lewis to fight all these causes. They're just unhappy he's fighting for one cause, but it's kinda hard to admit that.

-----

As for Webbers comment - he's not wrong. But times have changed since then. Back then, F1 refused to deal with political issues. Hence the South African GP and all that. It had an excuse then. But not now.
No, the hypocrisy is annoying, that's all. It's also a lot easier to "take a stand" for this cause at this point in time than it was those previous issues. Add to that the attention-seeking nature of hamilton in general, and of course he will be called out more than others.

Does vettel shoehorn his beliefs or political stances in every possible situation? No, for the most part he's quieter in his activism. What people to privately doesn't and shouldn't get talked about much if at all. Make yourself the center of attention, and it will be. Add to that, hamilton is the most famous and successful driver, always on the podium, always the center of attention on track every race, too, so fatigue sets in as well.

Your last line hints at something you've beaten around the bush to say many times, without actually saying it, which is really annoying and off base.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 22:48 (Ref:4021838)   #35
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I don’t see why Hamilton has to stand up for every injustice in the world. He’s chosen one and it is closer to his heart. Fair enough.

Others chose none. So he is way ahead them.

Others chose none and find an excuse to not listen to someone who highlights an injustice by changing the topic to discredit them. Thus missing the point. Hamilton is way ahead of these people.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 22:56 (Ref:4021841)   #36
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It isn’t hypocritical to stand up for one issue but not mention others. Otherwise every single person is a hypocrite if they’ve stood up for one thing and not another. I’ve joined campaigns for women’s rights but haven’t taken a knee yet. Am I a hypocrite? Of course not.

Vettel quieter on his activism. That’s amazing. He’s participated in every F1 protest, stood side by side with Lewis, taken the knee, given countless interviews on SkyTV about it, and despite not using social media much, has posted about it on Instagram, painted his helmets in designs to highlight it, and auctioned them off for charity. But yeah. He’s kinda quiet about it I suppose. Seems people are more sensitive to Lewis kneecaps than anyone else’s. Wonder why. BRB. Beating around some garden shrubbery.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 23:07 (Ref:4021845)   #37
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It isn’t hypocritical to stand up for one issue but not mention others. Otherwise every single person is a hypocrite if they’ve stood up for one thing and not another. I’ve joined campaigns for women’s rights but haven’t taken a knee yet. Am I a hypocrite? Of course not.

Vettel quieter on his activism. That’s amazing. He’s participated in every F1 protest, stood side by side with Lewis, taken the knee, given countless interviews on SkyTV about it, and despite not using social media much, has posted about it on Instagram, painted his helmets in designs to highlight it, and auctioned them off for charity. But yeah. He’s kinda quiet about it I suppose. Seems people are more sensitive to Lewis kneecaps than anyone else’s. Wonder why. BRB. Beating around some garden shrubbery.
I'll take your word for it that vettel is just as outspoken, even if I haven't heard a word about it other than a couple comments in passing about his helmet or posts on here, while I hear it straight from lewis or see it in what he wears when he knows he's in front of a camera, and see many more quotes of his. Again, I attribute a lot of this to his popularity and success. If vettel was the face of the sport, he'd be just as annoying if he was doing the same stuff.

But keep "wondering why". Just your version of "location checks out" to stick to people.

.....Which I guess I had coming since I have used that many times...

Edit: back to the topic, why does mazepin get a second chance or still get a chance for actually committing a despicable act, when ferrucci is still vilified mostly for words? (Their on track antics sound similar, so I'm figuring those as equally bad for both).
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 23:23 (Ref:4021846)   #38
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Edit: back to the topic, why does mazepin get a second chance or still get a chance for actually committing a despicable act, when ferrucci is still vilified mostly for words? (Their on track antics sound similar, so I'm figuring those as equally bad for both).
I don’t think Marzipan is that entitled or ignorant! And he’s a much faster driver.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 23:27 (Ref:4021847)   #39
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Didn’t Ferrucci deliberately drive into another car and use a mobile phone in an official session on track?

Get rid of both of them, frankly.
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 23:49 (Ref:4021852)   #40
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Didn’t Ferrucci deliberately drive into another car and use a mobile phone in an official session on track?

Get rid of both of them, frankly.

You want to ban Ferrucci from whatever series he is running in currently, for something he did three years ago in a series he will never compete in again? I can't comprehend this level of intellect...
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Old 9 Dec 2020, 23:56 (Ref:4021853)   #41
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Man saying people should be treated equally is annoying. That might well be the point.

*realizes what the title of the thread is*

Blummin’ ‘eck.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 00:04 (Ref:4021854)   #42
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It only took 2-3 pages before this thread is now about Lewis. Nikita, I hope you enjoyed your short time in the spotlight here on this forum!

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Old 10 Dec 2020, 00:06 (Ref:4021855)   #43
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It only took 2-3 pages before this thread is now about Lewis. Nikita, I hope you enjoyed your short time in the spotlight here on this forum!

Richard
To comment on the topic of the thread.

He’s been a tool.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 00:49 (Ref:4021859)   #44
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It only took 2-3 pages before this thread is now about Lewis.
We call that a 'HAMmering'!
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 06:56 (Ref:4021876)   #45
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You want to ban Ferrucci from whatever series he is running in currently, for something he did three years ago in a series he will never compete in again? I can't comprehend this level of intellect...
...I don’t think I said that at all lol. Apparently you’re correct. You can’t comprehend this level of intellect.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 07:29 (Ref:4021880)   #46
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To comment on the topic of the thread.

He’s been a tool.
It raises an interesting discussion on whether or not people in the public eye should be treated the same, or better, or worse, than normal people.

Would he have lost his job for doing this if he was, for example, a welder? Or programmer? Or shop worker? I don't know the answer to that, honestly. Should an F1 driver be the same? Or treated better because it's a unique job (I don't think so), or treated more harshly because part of the job is being a role model? Or sacked because the governing body does not agree with his values?

Either way, I'm sure his apology letter to Haas was signed on a big stack of notes.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 08:12 (Ref:4021886)   #47
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Would he have lost his job for doing this if he was, for example, a welder? Or programmer? Or shop worker?
The answer to that question is, as a minimum he would be sanctioned. We are all held to a standard that did not exist in previous times. There are examples of people in motorsport who have lost their positions due to similar on line antics, albeit not from F1.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 08:16 (Ref:4021889)   #48
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That's a fair question to pose. It's a little like the question of whether F1 should race in places with questionable human rights records. Arguably more pertinent, because those 20 drivers are beacons for the sport and they are seen to be role models. They are supposed to be ambassadors, for multi-million pound brands. That doesn't mean they can't be different from each other and individuals, but reprehensible actions are called into question.

I would say it's up to the team to decide what should happen to him, rather than us. He should face any relevant force of the law and we should be able to just call him a tool.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 08:26 (Ref:4021892)   #49
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This is a very broad and difficult argument. The individual is held to a high standard and should be sanctioned. Trying to link F1 to human rights is always going to be challenging for many reasons.

First the entire issue is coloured by the viewer's perception. What may appear to be a violation of rights to a western view, is simply considered normal by someone who lives under the regime; and, here I'm not talking about oppressive regimes, apartheid or ethnic cleansing etc. I'm really thinking about things like working practices, religious rules etc.
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Old 10 Dec 2020, 08:30 (Ref:4021893)   #50
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Born Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameBorn Racer will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Agreed, Peter. It's also difficult for us to call what sort of a bearing this should have upon his job. That's why I think the team is better placed to make that call as the employer.
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