Judd (Who Cares?)

[BRG]

Judd has been the top engine available to non works teams in LMP1 for a number of years.
Is it fair that purpose built racing engines have effectively been handicapped just so other manufactures like GM can enter LMP1?
The thought of a 7L GM LMP1 car is fantastic but as the ACO start looking into the comparison between homogulated and non-homogulated engines, who will be fighting in Judds corner,for a fair balance?

[JAG]

Who's to say Acura's P1 won't be a race engine?

[BRG]

Originally Posted by JAG

Who's to say Acura's P1 won't be a race engine?

Do you think the ACO's release "There will be a comparative investigation into the performance outputs of the petrol stock block engines and the petrol race block engines" is partly due to Acura interest in lmp1?
I personally think Acura will not go for LMP1 untill 2010.

[The Badger]

They had to address the petrol/diesel issue , cuz folk were getting cheesed off with it . Supposedly they will adjust the rules come next year .

Maybe partly due to Acura , and other manufacturer interest , and also to do with privateers who dont stand a chance with an off the shelf engine .

Acura are talking about LMP1 for 2009 ..... I have a feeling thats why Montagny was recruited , for an LMP1 campaign , with his presant experiance of the best car in the field .

Welcome to 10 10ths BRG ..... it gets mad around here sometimes !!!

[broadrun96]

What would Acura use other than a brand new designed for racing engine? They don't have anything sitting around in the realm or the C6.R or DBR9 engines, as far as I can tell. Might be smart for them to run something next year, if even just to get the ACO looking at how to equalize their engine with the GT1s and the purpose built like the AERs and Judds.

Another Judd question though, whatever happened to their diesel V10 engine plan? Saw something about it around a year ago and then nothing. I'm guessing it's a technical achievement beyond the scope of a small engine builder.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

What would Acura use other than a brand new designed for racing engine? They don't have anything sitting around in the realm or the C6.R or DBR9 engines, as far as I can tell. Might be smart for them to run something next year, if even just to get the ACO looking at how to equalize their engine with the GT1s and the purpose built like the AERs and Judds.

Another Judd question though, whatever happened to their diesel V10 engine plan? Saw something about it around a year ago and then nothing. I'm guessing it's a technical achievement beyond the scope of a small engine builder.

Has more to do with marketability. Will it be cost effective to build, and Judd is waiting for someone with a little bank to come along and subsidize the project. Rather than spend the money to finish the project, and have no one buy/lease it.


L.P.

[minimangler]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

What would Acura use other than a brand new designed for racing engine? They don't have anything sitting around in the realm or the C6.R or DBR9 engines, as far as I can tell. Might be smart for them to run something next year, if even just to get the ACO looking at how to equalize their engine with the GT1s and the purpose built like the AERs and Judds.

Another Judd question though, whatever happened to their diesel V10 engine plan? Saw something about it around a year ago and then nothing. I'm guessing it's a technical achievement beyond the scope of a small engine builder.

There's a few fairly hefty engines in the Toyota stable...and i all else failed, the could always create one if they felt that's where the advantage lies...

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

What would Acura use other than a brand new designed for racing engine?

Take a look at some of the Imore racing boat motors. You might be supprised what can be adapted. Just a wild guess here.

Judd makes great engines, just about two years behind every other engine developer.

[JAG]

As well as homologated GT1 engines, the ACO are allowing production engines of any size, according to Racecar Engineering.

[The Badger]

I thought 7L was the cap for production engines ?

Who makes a bigger engine that could be usefull for LMP ?

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I thought 7L was the cap for production engines ?

Who makes a bigger engine that could be usefull for LMP ?

Would you need a bigger engine?

[The Badger]

Im just wondering cuz the original rumour was a 7L cap ..... so why have they decided to let "any size" in ?

Who has a bigger than 7L thats useful for LMP is my question , not that you need one .

[chernaudi]

Shadow used an 8.2 liter Chevrolet V8 in the DN4, but that was over 30 years ago, and aluminum 7.0/427 GM big block V8s that such monsters were created from aren't mass produced anymore-though it's torque should come close to what the Audi R10 and the Peugeot 908's 5.5 V12 diesels have.

[The Badger]

And probably weigh about the same as an Audi R10 ..... including the car !!!

[Matt]

Common misconception. An all aluminum LS1 engine(I Know, it's only a 5.7l) weighs less than most iron 4 cylinders.

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Matt

Common misconception. An all aluminum LS1 engine(I Know, it's only a 5.7l) weighs less than most iron 4 cylinders.

The 8.2 Chapparal built Shadow/McLaren Chevy big block, though all-aluminum, isn't related to the LS family of alumiminum small blocks, but it is an interesting point-a Ford 302 Boss aluminum block/head engine weigh only 350lbs, only slightly more than the Citroen/Maserati V6 from the SM(that's also all aluminum)that's only about a foot long.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Im just wondering cuz the original rumour was a 7L cap ..... so why have they decided to let "any size" in ?

Who has a bigger than 7L thats useful for LMP is my question , not that you need one .

Bigger? Oh there are a few

Warhawk - Crank Clearance: Accepts 4.250" stroke crank (454 c.i.d @ max bore)
http://www.worldcastings.com/catalog/15.pdf
World Products has also released its "Warhawk LS7X" 12-degree cylinder heads. (The company also has more street-friendly "Warhawk LS1X" 15-degree heads available that'll work on any Gen III or Gen IV engine block, see the Web site for more info on those.) We'll get into the features of the LS7X heads as well as some of the more important differences between the Warhawk and GM blocks in the photo captions, but here's a discussion of some technical highlights of the LS7X block that will blow you away.

and how about this:

8.3L 505 c.i. 90* V10
700 BHP @ 6,300 RPM
Torque: 650 ft lb @ 4,800 RPM
http://www.ilmor.com/710.html

The above. hmmm could we see this in an Accura P1 car?

[JAG]

There are plenty of 4l+ super/turbo charged road car engines.

The old Sauber Mercerdes 5l V8 was lightly turbocharged, big power, low revs and reliable.

Bigger capacity production turbo engines could be the way to go if you want to reduce costs.

[Justin Moran]

Originally Posted by JAG

There are plenty of 4l+ super/turbo charged road car engines.

The old Sauber Mercerdes 5l V8 was lightly turbocharged, big power, low revs and reliable.

Bigger capacity production turbo engines could be the way to go if you want to reduce costs.

Lightly turbocharged? Twin TC's 5l V8 as opposed to the AMR1's 6L NA both gorgeous noises as they went by but how competetive would those engine be now?

[The359]

I have a feeling, with the launch of the DB, that Judd might be trying to concentrate more on LMP2 engines than LMP1, as they are likely to stand more of a chance in the LMP2s.

[Aslak Vind]

Originally Posted by The Badger

I thought 7L was the cap for production engines ?

Who makes a bigger engine that could be usefull for LMP ?

Just to answer your question, before this thread runs away with it. The 7 liter mark WILL be the cap next year, once the new ACO rules has been all the way through the papermill.

Obviously the 7 liter mark is due to GM. But I must admit, I also feel a bit sorry for John Judd and his team. they should be able to run less restricted, I know that the general ACO idea is to cut cost on developing purposebuildt raceengines, but the result they have ended up with at the ACO, is that AMR is using their production engines, and the Judd engines are not competitive in the same way.

I would feel ridiculed.

[Justin Moran]

However, the ACO are looking at the power output differential between Race and Production engines as well as looking to maintain the gap between P1 and P2 (ie pegging the Porsches back) and the Diesel inequality. The times have surpassed the 3:30 mark by some way during the race and the ACO will be using that as the benchmark. Whilst I know its not just engine power that produces quick times obviously the Aero packages will be very infuential. But the engines are the main piece!

[alwayswatching]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Take a look at some of the Imore racing boat motors. You might be supprised what can be adapted. Just a wild guess here.

Judd makes great engines, just about two years behind every other engine developer.

Isn't the current Judd V10, just a bigger version of what started life as a 3.5 motor back in the last days of the old 3.5 liter Group C in '92 or 3? Which would kind of make it very old technology indeed.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by alwayswatching

Isn't the current Judd V10, just a bigger version of what started life as a 3.5 motor back in the last days of the old 3.5 liter Group C in '92 or 3? Which would kind of make it very old technology indeed.

Please tell me what major tech. differences have occured since then that might be missing and cannot be retro-fitted?

[Aslak Vind]

Well, I have no idea whether allwayswatching is right..

But, if it is so. Then I guess that the block would be heavier than current engines?

How about direct fuel injection, will it be in the cards soon for the Judd?

Dont get me wrong, I really like John Judd and his whitecollared guys. But without proper funding, they will be up for a hard time.