Holden Local Manufacturing... GONE!! (Merged)

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Very interesting times and hard to see with any clarity where this is all going to end.

It's not looking good but I can only hope that it all works out and especially that they don't can a rear wheel drive replacement for the Commodore.

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by Casper

Everyone yells and screams about tarrifs and protection of our manufacturing industries and yes at first glance it seems stupid to strip away all that when other countries utilise that sort of protection. If that is the case tell me why of all these countries Australia is the one country everyone looks at and wonders how we have survived all the economic upheavals that have beset the rest of the world with very little disturbance to our way of life. Someone must be something right. Keating was the mover and shaker and set us on this path and Howard embraced his philosophies with both hands.

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that our soft landing after the GFC was thanks to our successive governments embracing Free Trade when the rest of the world has clung to Tariff protection.

Without evidence of a causal link, it could be put down to coincidence or it could be said that due to numerous other factors, we have ridden the storm well IN SPITE of our lack of Tariff protection.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by DAVID PATERSON

I think it's a bit of a stretch to suggest that our soft landing after the GFC was thanks to our successive governments embracing Free Trade when the rest of the world has clung to Tariff protection.

Without evidence of a causal link, it could be put down to coincidence or it could be said that due to numerous other factors, we have ridden the storm well IN SPITE of our lack of Tariff protection.

Agreed.
My take on the GFC soft landing is that Australia benefitted from 3 key issues when the GFC hit, and that continued tariff reductions were definitely a hindrance. In no order of importance:

1) Whether due to govt regulation, good management, or a combination of both, our bank sector was not crippled in the way that some US and European institutions were. The big 4 would have taken some hits, but overall they all prospered through the tough times.

2) During the "good" years up to 2007/8, the Liberal govt had the sense to store the surpluses as reserves, and not splash it about. When the GFC hit, Labour held the reins, but whichever govt was in power would have had to use those reserves to prop things up with industry support and various stimulus packages.

3) The mining boom meant raw material exports were good, and the country as a whole wasn't hit the way others were. However, the economy was effectively split into a 2 speed economy, with resources booming, and manufacturing suffering; partially due to the A$.

I don't know if the A$ going strong helped us through the GFC, but what it did do was hit our exports, and make imports substantially cheaper. In combination with reducing tariffs, Oz vehicle manufacturers suffered badly, and that's where they have stayed. Volume just hasn't come back.

Originally Posted by mountainstar

It's not looking good but I can only hope that it all works out and especially that they don't can a rear wheel drive replacement for the Commodore.

Also agreed. Perhaps Holden should look at the ads they placed when Toyota introduced the Avalon ....

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by RedZedMikey

Agreed.
My take on the GFC soft landing is that Australia benefitted from 3 key issues when the GFC hit, and that continued tariff reductions were definitely a hindrance. In no order of importance:

1) Whether due to govt regulation, good management, or a combination of both, our bank sector was not crippled in the way that some US and European institutions were. The big 4 would have taken some hits, but overall they all prospered through the tough times.

2) During the "good" years up to 2007/8, the Liberal govt had the sense to store the surpluses as reserves, and not splash it about. When the GFC hit, Labour held the reins, but whichever govt was in power would have had to use those reserves to prop things up with industry support and various stimulus packages.

3) The mining boom meant raw material exports were good, and the country as a whole wasn't hit the way others were. However, the economy was effectively split into a 2 speed economy, with resources booming, and manufacturing suffering; partially due to the A$.

I don't know if the A$ going strong helped us through the GFC, but what it did do was hit our exports, and make imports substantially cheaper. In combination with reducing tariffs, Oz vehicle manufacturers suffered badly, and that's where they have stayed. Volume just hasn't come back.


Also agreed. Perhaps Holden should look at the ads they placed when Toyota introduced the Avalon ....

!) GFC, a phrase coined by Aust Polies, when it was purley Euro and USA, and the rich pulled their money.

2) Back in the late 80's early 90's, both lib/lab agreed and put through changes to the money system in Aust as they didnt want another colapse like the the godd old GOD DAMM , God Bless America,(USA only mind you) as they had in the 80's and 90's , ( dont invest in USA home market, ouch )

3) When the feds handed out the sheckels, 99 % of brain dead journos and others forgot , that every time money was spent 10 % went back to the govt. Simple economics, so some of the reserve was given out, but still got some back thanks to tax system.

4) Why didnt foreign companies take note of Australia changes, which a lot of ppl complained that they were harsh, but saved us from iresponsible managment, Allan Bond paid millions for 9 network, Kerry brought it back for a quater of the price,

5) High Aus dollar does hurt, but so do free trade agreements, remember the sugar tax, because gutless Aust Govt gave into the Yanks on that agreement.


6) Australian business's have to start looking elsewhere, and not just mother england and the USA, explore new markets,


Simple fact Detroit will shut down Australia car manufacturing, replace it with imports designed for cities( Euro ) , but not much chop for a country like Aust and how many people and familys will buy a two door sedan?

SOme logic there, but its North American,

[fomoco]

bit too late me thinks:

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/576...is-it-too-late

[fomoco]

Have a happy xmas, enjoy your holidays, but,:

The news in Jan 2014 might not be all that good

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and..._year_20131119

[amiers]

May i ask how many that have posted on this thread actually own a commodore or a falcon, and not a company car?

I own a 08 XR8

[twinwebbers]

I'm one of the causes of all this malarkey. My XR6 got traded in for a Fiesta. I have twice as much fun on urban roads as I ever did in the Falcon. It's wonderfully underpowered but has a great chassis so at urban speeds you feel like a racing driver but you don't need to watch for little vans on the side of the road who want to take your picture.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by amiers

May i ask how many that have posted on this thread actually own a commodore or a falcon, and not a company car?
I own a 08 XR8

I own a 08 XR6 - it's my daily and doubles as a towcar. Was thinking about an upgrade to a V8 Ford/FPV Ute before the doors are closed, but am disappointed by Ford's recent news because next year is too soon for me. Will have to rethink and maybe buy an XR8 sedan in 2015/6 .... but Navara/Ranger/HiLux types are out of the question for me.

Have worked for 4 different OEM Tier 1 suppliers over the years, and retrenched from the middle 2 as local manufacture has dwindled. Current job was also OEM Tier 1, but that work has disappeared too, so this job is shaky as well. New car won't happen until I have some job confidence.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by amiers

May i ask how many that have posted on this thread actually own a commodore or a falcon, and not a company car?

I own a 08 XR8

XW falcon Wagon
Valiant Ute
Ford XD
Ford XC x 2
Torana XU1
Holden HR Ute
Ford Courier

current BF UTe

[DAVID PATERSON]

Originally Posted by amiers

May i ask how many that have posted on this thread actually own a commodore or a falcon, and not a company car?

I own a 08 XR8

In January I traded my '04 BA ute on a new XR6 ute.

When it's ready for replacement, I don't know what i will buy. Hilux/Navara/Ranger/Traiton etc. are highly undesirable (I want a car, not a truck), but nothing else has the load carrying/towing capability that i need on some weekends.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Do greenie do-gooders pay tax?

What I don't understand is why the government simply gives these industries hand outs. They should be buying shares of the company and looking after their investments not just doling out heaps of cash for no realistic guarantees or purposes.

It could only happen with taxpayers money!

[fomoco]

GM USA wants our tax payer dollars but doesnt want to help out;

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013...thousand-40165

typical godams

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by amiers

May i ask how many that have posted on this thread actually own a commodore or a falcon, and not a company car?

I own a 08 XR8

I was in a carpark in the city yesterday, where a whole heap of Sydney Water cars park. They were all Kias.

A Holden Cruze could do the job equally as well, and keep some jobs in Adelaide.

[RedZedMikey]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A Holden Cruze could do the job equally as well, and keep some jobs in Adelaide.

And Victoria too. Cars are assembled in Adelaide; a lot of Holden parts are made in Victoria ...

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by fomoco

GM USA wants our tax payer dollars but doesnt want to help out;

http://www.motoring.com.au/news/2013...thousand-40165

typical godams

There isn't anything to stop Australian private investors or equity funds from stepping in and buying into the old Ford plant or perhaps if GM pulls out, the Holden plant. They could do like Valmet in Finland and contract out for various production lines of vehicles, they could licence technology or produce their own vehicles.

I don't understand why it's all on Americans to make your car manufacturing work.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I don't understand why it's all on Americans to make your car manufacturing work.

Australians won't invest because wages are too high and there are too many imposts due to government legislation.

[fomoco]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

There isn't anything to stop Australian private investors or equity funds from stepping in and buying into the old Ford plant or perhaps if GM pulls out, the Holden plant. They could do like Valmet in Finland and contract out for various production lines of vehicles, they could licence technology or produce their own vehicles.

I don't understand why it's all on Americans to make your car manufacturing work.

This is to do with the export side of the house. Americans like the rebadged Commodore and on a ford forum from the states , they like the current FG and the ute, yet both players want funding but , in the case of the Commodore , will only import 1000 of them. And Ford just didnt want to export at all.

We also have a free trade agreement with the USA so importing shouldnt be a prob.

If they are serious and want my tax dollars, then up the ante on export and get serious.

[GTRMagic]

How to build an HSV Gen F

Anyone see any efficiency issues with trucking a car a thousand km, taking bits off, fitting new bits, sending old bits back etc in the build process?

[Umai Naa]

Move HSV to Elizabeth?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

Move HSV to Elizabeth?

I would have thought that implementing the HSV components onto the Elizabeth standard production line the first time the car passes by might be the cheapest thing to do......

[Casper]

Originally Posted by bluesport

Australians won't invest because wages are too high and there are too many imposts due to government legislation.

Can you give us a link to a breakdown in production costs that back your claim, real numbers not regurgitated statements repeating other regurgitated statements. Certainly GMH keep saying it is one facet of the issue but in reality how much.

Mr GTR, move the HSV component to Elizabeth? have you ever set up a production line? But the point is valid, stripping a built car seems ludicrous but I bet the number crunchers have been there before you. What happens to the stripped components?

[Umai Naa]

I would assume the stripped parts remain in a pool of parts for that very purpose.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by Casper

Can you give us a link to a breakdown in production costs that back your claim, real numbers not regurgitated statements repeating other regurgitated statements. Certainly GMH keep saying it is one facet of the issue but in reality how much.

Mr GTR, move the HSV component to Elizabeth? have you ever set up a production line? But the point is valid, stripping a built car seems ludicrous but I bet the number crunchers have been there before you. What happens to the stripped components?

No sir, I can't provide a link sir, very sorry sir.........I humbly apologise for having an opinion.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Casper

Mr GTR, move the HSV component to Elizabeth? have you ever set up a production line? But the point is valid, stripping a built car seems ludicrous but I bet the number crunchers have been there before you. What happens to the stripped components?

I have been involved in setting up several manufacturing/assembly/logistics facilities, and the golden rule is always to make everything as simple as possible.

Criss crossing states with cars and parts is nowhere near simple