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Old 21 Feb 2020, 22:49 (Ref:3959134)   #3826
Nononsensecapeesh
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Nononsensecapeesh should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hopefully, Team HARD will get better results, they should now they have a 1 Series or at least Boardley has.
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Old 21 Feb 2020, 23:36 (Ref:3959136)   #3827
mj088
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Twice in the article on BTCC.NET does Tony Gilham mention the CCs being "new"
I am assuming he just means rebuilt? or have they realised chopping bits off a few years ago didn't work out for them and have acquired some new cars?
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Old 21 Feb 2020, 23:46 (Ref:3959137)   #3828
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medius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridmedius should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
I have a memory that at least the first two CCs were converted road cars. The ebay account TG operated started flogging lots of CC-specific oily bits and interior parts in the weeks following the Racecar builds - coincidence possibly.

According to the database they are all 2013/2014 build but have been smashed up a fair few times since not to mention the Geoff K hack job Mike Bushell had to undo after wasting most of the year , but rebuilt "professionally" so I'm sure they'll win again without act of God or mother nature..... {winkyface}

Let's hope they can afford to send them to the grid this season with pads/discs/dampers with enough life to complete a race distance for a change. Bobby's family weren't happy about that.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 00:06 (Ref:3959139)   #3829
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Originally Posted by medius View Post
Let's hope they can afford to send them to the grid this season with pads/discs/dampers with enough life to complete a race distance for a change. Bobby's family weren't happy about that.
I have heard from more than 1 person that this is the reason Michael Caine suddenly had "commitments" every btcc race weekend and didn't finish the 2018 season with them (despite then turning out in the Porsche Cup)
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 10:06 (Ref:3959180)   #3830
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The CC's aero looks to have been changed around the bonnet and rear wheel arch.

I personally don't think the cars aren't all that bad, same with the Focus RS/Subaru/Mercedes, and more down to the team running them not getting the most out of them.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 11:16 (Ref:3959188)   #3831
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Originally Posted by HopAlong View Post
The CC's aero looks to have been changed around the bonnet and rear wheel arch.

I personally don't think the cars aren't all that bad, same with the Focus RS/Subaru/Mercedes, and more down to the team running them not getting the most out of them.
The stickers on the front say 'Big Change' so hopefully that prooves to be true! Still surprised that Goff signed for a second year so early on.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 11:28 (Ref:3959191)   #3832
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Originally Posted by Evantra View Post
The stickers on the front say 'Big Change' so hopefully that prooves to be true! Still surprised that Goff signed for a second year so early on.
Jack isn't renowned for budget and probably didn't fancy another winter like last year where he was going to be racing nothing until literally days before the season started.
Plus I think he was short on budget last year so may still have owed Team Hard some money which could have been rolled into the 2020 package put together
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 11:38 (Ref:3959197)   #3833
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Originally Posted by mj088 View Post
Jack isn't renowned for budget and probably didn't fancy another winter like last year where he was going to be racing nothing until literally days before the season started.
Plus I think he was short on budget last year so may still have owed Team Hard some money which could have been rolled into the 2020 package put together
His crash damage bill from Brands Hatch GP rounds, left him without a chance of finding an alternative seat.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 12:18 (Ref:3959204)   #3834
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Originally Posted by HopAlong View Post
The CC's aero looks to have been changed around the bonnet and rear wheel arch.

I personally don't think the cars aren't all that bad, same with the Focus RS/Subaru/Mercedes, and more down to the team running them not getting the most out of them.
The rear arches have reverted to more like the 2017 pre Kingston design
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 12:51 (Ref:3959208)   #3835
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I've heard (and seen) multiple cases of Team HARD sending their cars with any old crap parts out on them. There's a history with drivers leaving due to this. However, Motorsport is expensive and many of these drivers do not have alternatives, so TG has the market cornered.

Also heard Team HARD mechanics pay to wrench on the BTCC cars for the "experience". Talk about monetising the entire ecosystem. There's really only one real winner in the team. And drivers have to gamble to be on the grid and hope they don't end up in debt to TG.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 12:55 (Ref:3959211)   #3836
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Back to Motorbase bears...

A certain bear using organisation with lots of corporate red is the primary sponsor on the #43 Bubba Wallace/ Richard Petty Motorsports car at Vegas this weekend.

Think that paint job would suit the Focus nicely.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 13:02 (Ref:3959213)   #3837
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Originally Posted by crmalcolm View Post
That would tie in with the information I was given previously.
Looking back at the message I received now, it seems the provider was being a bit cheeky, and possibly deliberately misleading?

The message was:
'Motorbase have a new sponsor for 2020. All I can say is *O*A*O**, white and red, and they've been on the grid before '

I had originally put this together as Vodafone - which is also a brand that Butcher has links with. But it could also be Coca-Cola I guess?

Vodafone seem to be promoting 5G a lot online. A deal with Motorbase may make more sense than Coca Cola perhaps.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 13:05 (Ref:3959215)   #3838
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mark_l should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridmark_l should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by 5five View Post
I've heard (and seen) multiple cases of Team HARD sending their cars with any old crap parts out on them. There's a history with drivers leaving due to this. However, Motorsport is expensive and many of these drivers do not have alternatives, so TG has the market cornered.

Also heard Team HARD mechanics pay to wrench on the BTCC cars for the "experience". Talk about monetising the entire ecosystem. There's really only one real winner in the team. And drivers have to gamble to be on the grid and hope they don't end up in debt to TG.
I have heard of allegations of one team buying second hand brake pads from other teams and fitting them to their cars.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 13:32 (Ref:3959222)   #3839
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billy bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbilly bleach should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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I have heard of allegations of one team buying second hand brake pads from other teams and fitting them to their cars.
Any aspiring mechanic paying to work on a car doesn’t deserve to be in the pit road. There are PLENTY of teams in TOCA / GT paddocks that are willing to give ambitious hard working kids a go for expenses / nil money. I find hard to believe anyone except drivers pay to be part of the Team HARD dream...

Buying scrap pads, Discs, Gears, tyres now that is a whole different story....
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 13:42 (Ref:3959225)   #3840
Nononsensecapeesh
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Nononsensecapeesh should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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Originally Posted by 5five View Post
I've heard (and seen) multiple cases of Team HARD sending their cars with any old crap parts out on them. There's a history with drivers leaving due to this. However, Motorsport is expensive and many of these drivers do not have alternatives, so TG has the market cornered.

Also heard Team HARD mechanics pay to wrench on the BTCC cars for the "experience". Talk about monetising the entire ecosystem. There's really only one real winner in the team. And drivers have to gamble to be on the grid and hope they don't end up in debt to TG.
That explains the numerous driver changes. at Team HARD.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 14:24 (Ref:3959229)   #3841
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Originally Posted by Nononsensecapeesh View Post
That explains the numerous driver changes. at Team HARD.
It also explains why the rides are apparently so much cheaper, why the cars are regularly seen pitting on the way to the grid (dodgy unsafe parts being fitted by home mechanics paying TG to have a go?), and why Hard havent attracted any real established drivers since Tom Onslow Cole.

I hope they arent bodging the modifications Hamilton needs in his car!!

Its not just the BTCC they are running like this seemingly scrimping with poor quality or used parts, i noticed how Jade was suddenly a lot more on the pace last year when Hard were no longer preparing her Clio
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 14:52 (Ref:3959233)   #3842
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Originally Posted by medius View Post
According to the database they are all 2013/2014 build but have been smashed up a fair few times since not to mention the Geoff K hack job Mike Bushell had to undo after wasting most of the year , but rebuilt "professionally" so I'm sure they'll win again without act of God or mother nature..... {winkyface}
Yes looking at the rear arches they are back to 2017 spec when the car was more competitive, without the wedge going across the back door.

whats Geoff Kingston doing now? he was much acclaimed until he turned up at Hard and started sawing bits off the chassis, I heard he went to Simpson racing but judging by their performance last year he didnt redeem himself
Attached Thumbnails
2019.jpg   2020.jpg  
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 14:57 (Ref:3959234)   #3843
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Originally Posted by mj088 View Post
and why Hard havent attracted any real established drivers since Tom Onslow Cole.
jack goff isnt a "established driver"??
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 15:04 (Ref:3959237)   #3844
mj088
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Originally Posted by touring fan01 View Post
jack goff isnt a "established driver"??
He was there as a last minute sub because nobody else was offering him a drive for last year, and given the short timescale was probably a better option than sitting about doing nothing. i doubt he left Eurotech and thought "oh lets try Team Hard, those CCs look like the car for me"

And now hes signed again because a couple of us have stated a budget deficiency issue for 2019 has been rolled into 2020 leaving little option elsewhere

Look at their line ups:

2015 Gallagher (new to the series + left mid season), then TG himself
2016 Hill (not established BTCC regular and first full season) Epps (new to series) Smiley (new to series)
2017 Hill & Epps (continued with team) Burns (new to series)
2018 Hill (left mid season) Bushell (returning to series after clios), Thompson (new to series) Caine (not a BTCC regular + left mid season) various random drivers for 1 off events
2019 Goff (an exception but only as a last minute deal) Thompson (continued with team) Crees ( new to series) Boardley (new to series)

Aside from Goff signing as a super sub a week before because it was better option than nothing, which established drivers in the BTCC are you seeing looking at Team Hard thinking they would like to be part of that set up? or leaving other teams on the grid to join them?

Last edited by mj088; 22 Feb 2020 at 15:22.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 15:21 (Ref:3959239)   #3845
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That explains the numerous driver changes. at Team HARD.
Not really as that was 6 or 7 years ago. More recently the changes were due to drivers running out of budget halfway through the season.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 15:26 (Ref:3959240)   #3846
mj088
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Not really as that was 6 or 7 years ago. More recently the changes were due to drivers running out of budget halfway through the season.
Neither Hill or Caine left for budget issues (AFAIK)
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 15:31 (Ref:3959241)   #3847
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Neither Hill or Caine left for budget issues (AFAIK)
I guess it depends on who you talk to, I was told it was definitely a factor in both (loss of sponsorship) but as with most of us I don't know the exact details
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 15:39 (Ref:3959243)   #3848
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I guess it depends on who you talk to, I was told it was definitely a factor in both (loss of sponsorship) but as with most of us I don't know the exact details
It wasn't a factor in either.

Hill was poached by another team, and was then shafted twice by Gilham who blocked him from racing for anyone else AND kept the money Hill's sponsors had already paid for races he didn't do.

The reasons for Caine's departure are explained about 25 posts above.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 15:54 (Ref:3959245)   #3849
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I was just going to say Hill's not being able to see out the 2018 season wasnt so much he couldnt meet the budget, more that he gave it to TG up front and Tony played hard ball about it when Jake was all but signed for AmD MG.
You can argue Tony being in the right or the wrong but the fact of the story is Jake didn't want to drive for the team or the car.
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Old 22 Feb 2020, 16:58 (Ref:3959247)   #3850
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see: last season and the support categories said team competes in. you can’t rob peter to pay paul’s bills. unless you wear a pink hat.

allegedly.
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