Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 27 Aug 2009, 09:35 (Ref:2529109)   #26
john ruston
The Scarlet Pimpernel
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Retired roaming
Posts: 5,274
john ruston has a real shot at the podium!john ruston has a real shot at the podium!john ruston has a real shot at the podium!john ruston has a real shot at the podium!
The thread was started by Mr Drabble.
Question put forward was why not start a Pre 63 Saloon car series or have a race.
On this basis the ideas behind the idea must be ironed out which includes dealing with cheating,formula,who would run it come into play.It should be discussed on this thread.There are no other threads dealing with this idea .
john ruston is offline  
__________________
john ruston
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 09:39 (Ref:2529112)   #27
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
The thread was started by Mr Drabble.
Question put forward was why not start a Pre 63 Saloon car series or have a race.
That's very true well done.


Quote:
Originally Posted by john ruston View Post
On this basis the ideas behind the idea must be ironed out which includes dealing with cheating,formula,who would run it come into play.It should be discussed on this thread.There are no other threads dealing with this idea .
You can't cheat if there are no regs. I suggested not to get into the nasty V8s thing or the cheating thing so it could develop.

Other than that thanks for being positive.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 09:52 (Ref:2529115)   #28
simon drabble
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Hampshire
Posts: 5,676
simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think the basis should be as in period.... would it be that difficult to get hold of the regs from the Motor Six Hour International Saloon Car Race? They mention Group 2 - is that FIA Appendix K? The Autosport report in the excellant link talks about reliability being the great leveler. There is a lot in that - hot rods do not last as long...
I was going to print the Autosport report quoted on Frank's site but not sure of the copyright rules but anyone who has not done so should read it - great reading..
simon drabble is offline  
__________________
Borrowed money is only credit in a bull market - its debt in a bear market
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 10:50 (Ref:2529147)   #29
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Did they have roll cages in 1962? Good idea in general though. Interesting about the two Morris 1100s because one was homologated with twin SUs and the other wasn't. And the 1300 Anglia is interesting too.

Try http://www.sovren.org/competition/ru...IA%201962.html
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 11:14 (Ref:2529160)   #30
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The most anyone had was a rear hoop. I would like to see something like this actually happen,six hours in a virtually standard car? should be good!
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 11:18 (Ref:2529163)   #31
simon drabble
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Hampshire
Posts: 5,676
simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
or even a 1 hour race as per the Pre 63 GT....
simon drabble is offline  
__________________
Borrowed money is only credit in a bull market - its debt in a bear market
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 11:29 (Ref:2529170)   #32
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon drabble View Post
or even a 1 hour race as per the Pre 63 GT....

OK,that'll do for starters Simon.
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 11:35 (Ref:2529178)   #33
GORDON STREETER
Veteran
 
GORDON STREETER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Spain
Kent+Mojacar Spain, but not always ?
Posts: 9,400
GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!GORDON STREETER is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
And why can't it have its own regs rather than HRSR/OBG etc?
I can't see another regs series getting off the ground for mere mortals like me that don't have a money tree at the bottom of the garden, but that's only my opinion
GORDON STREETER is offline  
__________________
Balls of steel (knob of butter) They're Asking For Larkins. ( Proper beer) not you're Eurofizz crap. Hace más calor en España. Me han conocido a hablar un montón cojones! Send any cheques and cash to PO box 1 Lagos Nigeria Africa !
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 12:36 (Ref:2529222)   #34
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Fair point Gordon.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 13:39 (Ref:2529267)   #35
rogerwills
Veteran
 
rogerwills's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
New Zealand
London
Posts: 1,478
rogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridrogerwills should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Pre-63 saloons at next year's Silverstone Classic? Very strict compliance with pre-63 specification. I think it would be a great race.
rogerwills is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 14:06 (Ref:2529285)   #36
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,677
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think this is a great idea. A couple of questions. Was the Mini Cooper 'S' available in 1962 in any of the 970cc, 1071cc or 1275cc capacities - if memory serves I think the 1071 was the first but not sure which year. Was the 1100 available with any badge before 1.1.63? Cortina was avaiable in 1962 but only 1200 model, I think. Mk II Jag available with 3.8 in 1962 if I remember correctly.

I agree with Peter Mallet that this doesn't fit with any existing HRSR, CTCRC or OBG series but is it worth me asking around within HRSR/HSCC circles to see if a class for this could be run at an early HSCC meeting in 2010 within an HRSR race?

In terms of regs I've been involved with these for many years with HRSR (before anyone jumps down my throat I am well aware that HRSR doesn't sit well with many of you, but I really am a fan of well policed App K regs - honestly!) and to start the discussion going how about considering:

1. Strict App K where papers exist.
2. Showroom spec with agreed modifications for non App K 50's and early 60s cars. Such agreed modifications to be listed within supplementary regs and any competitor wishing to introduce a previously unseen model to request up front what regs will be permitted.
3. A set of regs that will state categorically that capacity testing and other inspections will be performed frequently.
4. Dunlop CR65 tyres.
5. No ohv V8s, only side valves.
6. No freaks such as Alvis Grey Ladies!!

Honestly, I'm not trying to hijack this for HRSR but I think there is mileage in Simon's suggestion.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 14:18 (Ref:2529292)   #37
simon drabble
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Hampshire
Posts: 5,676
simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I think if anyone can produce a set of regs to encourage a grid like the period one quoted earlier at Brands they will have a sure fired winner on their hands which prhaps more importantly people would like to watch as there would be battles all down the grid...
Roger that would be awesome.... I think I will accelerate my prepping!
simon drabble is offline  
__________________
Borrowed money is only credit in a bull market - its debt in a bear market
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 15:49 (Ref:2529338)   #38
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
I think this, like another idea has legs.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 16:17 (Ref:2529354)   #39
Jeremy Hall
Racer
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 402
Jeremy Hall should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I don't want to **** on your strawberries gang but if we look at the 1962 race entry and results there are three engines-the Jaguar, the BMC A sereis and the Ford which now have the benefit of nearly fifty years continuous development compared withthe rest.I raced a Flaminia for years and no one had ever done any work on that engine since 1964. The only way to generate a range of cars like 1962 is to either do a Porsche and have the engines dyno'ed to limit the power to a period specification or allow modern spec engines but insist on ballasting the cars to compensate.
Elsewise it'll just be a three horse race.
Jeremy Hall is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 16:48 (Ref:2529369)   #40
terence
Veteran
 
terence's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Germany
Nordschleife
Posts: 12,853
terence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridterence should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Thats nice,been away for week's on end and when you decide to pop in to see whats going on, you bugger up the fruit!
terence is offline  
__________________
Living the dream,Chief instruktor and racing on the worlds best circuits-The Nordschleife and Spa.Getting to drive the worlds best cars-someone has to do it, so glad its me.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:11 (Ref:2529381)   #41
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Arse, I've just bought an MG1100! (not as rich as Simon).
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:22 (Ref:2529388)   #42
simon drabble
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Hampshire
Posts: 5,676
simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Well done! Peter the difference is that yours is not dissassembled as mine currently is!!!
simon drabble is offline  
__________________
Borrowed money is only credit in a bull market - its debt in a bear market
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:40 (Ref:2529397)   #43
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,677
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Answered some of my own questions from post no. 36.

The 1071cc Cooper 'S' engine came out in 1963, whilst the 970cc and 1275cc were 1964. Looks like the Minis will be limited to 997cc. The Morris 1100 was introduced in 1962 at 1098cc whilst the Austin came in 1963 and the MG later. The Cortina was introduced in 1962 with both 1198cc and 1498cc engines. If the 1498 unit was a late 62 announcement meant for 1963 then this unit could be banned (sorry Zef). The Jag MkII had the 3.8 from 1959 onwards.

Still think the idea has mileage despite Jeremy's doubts. The BMC engines are long stroke low revving and the smaller Fords have 3 bearing cranks. The Jag is heavy heavy heavy. The point is that it could cater for those cars already out there such as Riley 1.5, Magnettes, Westminsters, Zephyrs, etc as well as the popular ones that those who want to be at the sharp end will gravitate towards. As Jeremy says - weight could be used as a playing field leveller.
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 17:46 (Ref:2529400)   #44
simon drabble
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location:
Hampshire
Posts: 5,676
simon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridsimon drabble should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
I agree Jaguar has to run at 1460 kg and is underbraked so could get exciting the 1500 wolsey could be the clever car for value/power one sold this week for a song on ebay genuine barn find in good nick.
simon drabble is offline  
__________________
Borrowed money is only credit in a bull market - its debt in a bear market
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 18:31 (Ref:2529427)   #45
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
the same was the Brands 6 hour in 63 . . .GP1 (standard) and gp2 . . . .th e cars would do 12 hours if needs be (Marlborough, USA)

I think the more extreme prearation levels have probably been devised around the anomalies of App K . . . .

trus historic racing should be to true historic regs . . . . I originally built my car to the homologation papers, not APp K . . .thats why its so F*****g slow!
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2529428)   #46
zefarelly
Veteran
 
zefarelly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
European Union
Posts: 9,710
zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!zefarelly has a real shot at the podium!
In response to Morning Gents, I'd say 1500 precrossflows in the FOrd Classic only (its heavy) Cortinas would have to run 1200cc . . . .or get a 1200 super anglia.

the Cortina 1500 super came out in Jan 63, the GT in April 63, the LC was 'announced' but didn't actually really exist until a little later still.

I think I'd build an Anglia, or an Allardette. . . .
zefarelly is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 18:41 (Ref:2529429)   #47
Dave Brand
Veteran
 
Dave Brand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
Hadfield, Derbyshire (UK)
Posts: 6,358
Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by morninggents View Post
The Cortina was introduced in 1962 with both 1198cc and 1498cc engines. If the 1498 unit was a late 62 announcement meant for 1963 then this unit could be banned (sorry Zef).
According to "Ford in Britain", by Martin Rawbone, the 1500 was announced in January 1963, the Lotus Cortina a few days later, the GT in April. If I remember correctly Ford raced GTs for a while from April 1963, as the Lotus hadn't yet been homologated.

However, the 116E 1,500cc engine was available in the Consul Classic from August 1962. . .
Dave Brand is offline  
__________________
Doing an important job doesn't make you an important person.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 18:44 (Ref:2529431)   #48
Dave Brand
Veteran
 
Dave Brand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
England
Hadfield, Derbyshire (UK)
Posts: 6,358
Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!Dave Brand is going for a new lap record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by zefarelly View Post
In response to Morning Gents,
Beat me to it - you must be able to type faster than me!
Dave Brand is offline  
__________________
Doing an important job doesn't make you an important person.
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 19:00 (Ref:2529437)   #49
morninggents
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
England
Up north, near York.
Posts: 2,677
morninggents should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Hang on ............... 'specials' being talked about at this early stage ...... and by you, Zef! Was the Allardette actually homologated in Group 2 as opposed to Group 3? Ford Classics with 1498cc engines - may be they were available in 1962 but I can't actually remember seeing many on the race tracks!!

However, the discussion seems to have gained momentum, and even 1340 and 1498 Consul Classics would be an interesting new face on the grids to add variety.

Are there really enough interested people to get this off the ground?
morninggents is offline  
Quote
Old 27 Aug 2009, 19:00 (Ref:2529438)   #50
Al Weyman
Veteran
 
Al Weyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
England
South of Watford (just)
Posts: 14,699
Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!Al Weyman has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by simon drabble View Post
I agree Jaguar has to run at 1460 kg and is underbraked so could get exciting the 1500 wolsey could be the clever car for value/power one sold this week for a song on ebay genuine barn find in good nick.
A legal one seems very slow! At least if the one that runs in CTCRC pre 66's is anything to go by. It was always a heavy little car as I recollect.
Al Weyman is offline  
__________________
You can't polish a turd but you sure can sprinkle it with glitter!
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
pre 93' saloons, 1300 class? rallycrosscraig National & Club Racing 33 2 Apr 2009 11:17
Pre '66 Saloons - British GP Support Andrew Kitson Historic Racing Today 400 16 Jul 2008 07:57
HSCC Saloons / Historic Racing Saloons Register (HRSR) rogerwills Historic Racing Today 94 18 Mar 2008 10:28
Car 63 - 24hr whatapalaver Marshals Forum 13 13 Sep 2005 20:12
2.63 macdaddy ChampCar World Series 8 1 Jan 2005 18:29


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:01.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.