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27 Aug 2009, 09:35 (Ref:2529109) | #26 | ||
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The thread was started by Mr Drabble.
Question put forward was why not start a Pre 63 Saloon car series or have a race. On this basis the ideas behind the idea must be ironed out which includes dealing with cheating,formula,who would run it come into play.It should be discussed on this thread.There are no other threads dealing with this idea . |
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27 Aug 2009, 09:39 (Ref:2529112) | #27 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
Other than that thanks for being positive. |
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27 Aug 2009, 09:52 (Ref:2529115) | #28 | ||
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I think the basis should be as in period.... would it be that difficult to get hold of the regs from the Motor Six Hour International Saloon Car Race? They mention Group 2 - is that FIA Appendix K? The Autosport report in the excellant link talks about reliability being the great leveler. There is a lot in that - hot rods do not last as long...
I was going to print the Autosport report quoted on Frank's site but not sure of the copyright rules but anyone who has not done so should read it - great reading.. |
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27 Aug 2009, 10:50 (Ref:2529147) | #29 | ||
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Did they have roll cages in 1962? Good idea in general though. Interesting about the two Morris 1100s because one was homologated with twin SUs and the other wasn't. And the 1300 Anglia is interesting too.
Try http://www.sovren.org/competition/ru...IA%201962.html |
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27 Aug 2009, 11:14 (Ref:2529160) | #30 | ||
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The most anyone had was a rear hoop. I would like to see something like this actually happen,six hours in a virtually standard car? should be good!
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27 Aug 2009, 11:18 (Ref:2529163) | #31 | ||
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or even a 1 hour race as per the Pre 63 GT....
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27 Aug 2009, 11:29 (Ref:2529170) | #32 | ||
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27 Aug 2009, 11:35 (Ref:2529178) | #33 | ||
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27 Aug 2009, 12:36 (Ref:2529222) | #34 | ||
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Fair point Gordon.
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27 Aug 2009, 13:39 (Ref:2529267) | #35 | ||
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Pre-63 saloons at next year's Silverstone Classic? Very strict compliance with pre-63 specification. I think it would be a great race.
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27 Aug 2009, 14:06 (Ref:2529285) | #36 | ||
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I think this is a great idea. A couple of questions. Was the Mini Cooper 'S' available in 1962 in any of the 970cc, 1071cc or 1275cc capacities - if memory serves I think the 1071 was the first but not sure which year. Was the 1100 available with any badge before 1.1.63? Cortina was avaiable in 1962 but only 1200 model, I think. Mk II Jag available with 3.8 in 1962 if I remember correctly.
I agree with Peter Mallet that this doesn't fit with any existing HRSR, CTCRC or OBG series but is it worth me asking around within HRSR/HSCC circles to see if a class for this could be run at an early HSCC meeting in 2010 within an HRSR race? In terms of regs I've been involved with these for many years with HRSR (before anyone jumps down my throat I am well aware that HRSR doesn't sit well with many of you, but I really am a fan of well policed App K regs - honestly!) and to start the discussion going how about considering: 1. Strict App K where papers exist. 2. Showroom spec with agreed modifications for non App K 50's and early 60s cars. Such agreed modifications to be listed within supplementary regs and any competitor wishing to introduce a previously unseen model to request up front what regs will be permitted. 3. A set of regs that will state categorically that capacity testing and other inspections will be performed frequently. 4. Dunlop CR65 tyres. 5. No ohv V8s, only side valves. 6. No freaks such as Alvis Grey Ladies!! Honestly, I'm not trying to hijack this for HRSR but I think there is mileage in Simon's suggestion. |
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27 Aug 2009, 14:18 (Ref:2529292) | #37 | ||
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I think if anyone can produce a set of regs to encourage a grid like the period one quoted earlier at Brands they will have a sure fired winner on their hands which prhaps more importantly people would like to watch as there would be battles all down the grid...
Roger that would be awesome.... I think I will accelerate my prepping! |
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27 Aug 2009, 15:49 (Ref:2529338) | #38 | ||
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I think this, like another idea has legs.
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27 Aug 2009, 16:17 (Ref:2529354) | #39 | |
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I don't want to **** on your strawberries gang but if we look at the 1962 race entry and results there are three engines-the Jaguar, the BMC A sereis and the Ford which now have the benefit of nearly fifty years continuous development compared withthe rest.I raced a Flaminia for years and no one had ever done any work on that engine since 1964. The only way to generate a range of cars like 1962 is to either do a Porsche and have the engines dyno'ed to limit the power to a period specification or allow modern spec engines but insist on ballasting the cars to compensate.
Elsewise it'll just be a three horse race. |
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27 Aug 2009, 16:48 (Ref:2529369) | #40 | ||
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Thats nice,been away for week's on end and when you decide to pop in to see whats going on, you bugger up the fruit!
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27 Aug 2009, 17:11 (Ref:2529381) | #41 | ||
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Arse, I've just bought an MG1100! (not as rich as Simon).
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27 Aug 2009, 17:22 (Ref:2529388) | #42 | ||
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Well done! Peter the difference is that yours is not dissassembled as mine currently is!!!
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27 Aug 2009, 17:40 (Ref:2529397) | #43 | ||
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Answered some of my own questions from post no. 36.
The 1071cc Cooper 'S' engine came out in 1963, whilst the 970cc and 1275cc were 1964. Looks like the Minis will be limited to 997cc. The Morris 1100 was introduced in 1962 at 1098cc whilst the Austin came in 1963 and the MG later. The Cortina was introduced in 1962 with both 1198cc and 1498cc engines. If the 1498 unit was a late 62 announcement meant for 1963 then this unit could be banned (sorry Zef). The Jag MkII had the 3.8 from 1959 onwards. Still think the idea has mileage despite Jeremy's doubts. The BMC engines are long stroke low revving and the smaller Fords have 3 bearing cranks. The Jag is heavy heavy heavy. The point is that it could cater for those cars already out there such as Riley 1.5, Magnettes, Westminsters, Zephyrs, etc as well as the popular ones that those who want to be at the sharp end will gravitate towards. As Jeremy says - weight could be used as a playing field leveller. |
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27 Aug 2009, 17:46 (Ref:2529400) | #44 | ||
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I agree Jaguar has to run at 1460 kg and is underbraked so could get exciting the 1500 wolsey could be the clever car for value/power one sold this week for a song on ebay genuine barn find in good nick.
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27 Aug 2009, 18:31 (Ref:2529427) | #45 | |
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the same was the Brands 6 hour in 63 . . .GP1 (standard) and gp2 . . . .th e cars would do 12 hours if needs be (Marlborough, USA)
I think the more extreme prearation levels have probably been devised around the anomalies of App K . . . . trus historic racing should be to true historic regs . . . . I originally built my car to the homologation papers, not APp K . . .thats why its so F*****g slow! |
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27 Aug 2009, 18:40 (Ref:2529428) | #46 | |
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In response to Morning Gents, I'd say 1500 precrossflows in the FOrd Classic only (its heavy) Cortinas would have to run 1200cc . . . .or get a 1200 super anglia.
the Cortina 1500 super came out in Jan 63, the GT in April 63, the LC was 'announced' but didn't actually really exist until a little later still. I think I'd build an Anglia, or an Allardette. . . . |
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27 Aug 2009, 18:41 (Ref:2529429) | #47 | |||
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However, the 116E 1,500cc engine was available in the Consul Classic from August 1962. . . |
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27 Aug 2009, 18:44 (Ref:2529431) | #48 | ||
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27 Aug 2009, 19:00 (Ref:2529437) | #49 | ||
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Hang on ............... 'specials' being talked about at this early stage ...... and by you, Zef! Was the Allardette actually homologated in Group 2 as opposed to Group 3? Ford Classics with 1498cc engines - may be they were available in 1962 but I can't actually remember seeing many on the race tracks!!
However, the discussion seems to have gained momentum, and even 1340 and 1498 Consul Classics would be an interesting new face on the grids to add variety. Are there really enough interested people to get this off the ground? |
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27 Aug 2009, 19:00 (Ref:2529438) | #50 | ||
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A legal one seems very slow! At least if the one that runs in CTCRC pre 66's is anything to go by. It was always a heavy little car as I recollect.
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