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Old 25 May 2017, 19:55 (Ref:3736021)   #1351
Juntos
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Juntos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridJuntos should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We have just two credible LMP3 prototypes ... Ligier and Norma.

It shows ACO needs to be more careful picking up the manufacturers.
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Old 26 May 2017, 02:45 (Ref:3736085)   #1352
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Don't think we can ignore what Ginetta did for the category though, as they flew the flag solo for awhile and got the series exposure and interest from teams before Onroak released their car. But yeah, sadly we currently only have 2 brands worth having and hopefully when the new regs are released (I think 2019?) there will be more interest from other parties.

I expect the regs won't change much though apart from a power increase and wouldn't be surprised if Onroak offer an upgrade package which may sway teams from looking elsewhere.
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Old 26 May 2017, 06:44 (Ref:3736103)   #1353
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The LMP3s need a power hike, especially in classes where they're not the lead class and in multi-class racing. The ACO did it for LMP2 already, but that was when new regs got phased in.

And I don't think we'll see anyone new come into LMP3 as the regs for that class are due for an overhaul and no one will want to develop a car for a customer car class that won't sell in serious numbers when new regs are a couple of years away.
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Old 26 May 2017, 10:11 (Ref:3736122)   #1354
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And I don't think we'll see anyone new come into LMP3 as the regs for that class are due for an overhaul and no one will want to develop a car for a customer car class that won't sell in serious numbers when new regs are a couple of years away.
We won't see anyone new for a while for a much simpler reason: Only five constructors allowed.
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Old 26 May 2017, 19:54 (Ref:3736232)   #1355
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I don't think that matters, because in reality only two matter, and those are Ligier and Norma, who are selling race winning cars. The Ginetta might still be homologated, but no one's running it for reasons that are well known here, the Riley isn't selling in Europe, and I don't even know who the 5th maker is.
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Old 26 May 2017, 20:03 (Ref:3736235)   #1356
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Originally Posted by chernaudi View Post
I don't think that matters, because in reality only two matter, and those are Ligier and Norma, who are selling race winning cars. The Ginetta might still be homologated, but no one's running it for reasons that are well known here, the Riley isn't selling in Europe, and I don't even know who the 5th maker is.
There isn't a strict limit of 5. There was 5 and then Norma was added, bringing it to 6. Dome then dropped out and it was back down to 5.

Ginetta
Ligier
Norma
Ave Riley
Adess
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Old 26 May 2017, 21:03 (Ref:3736255)   #1357
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And still, out of those 5, only Ligier (Onroak) and Norma are relevant as far as race winning cars. 5-6 cars might be allowed, but if two emerge as the best, those are the ones that will sell. The Ginetta might have launched the class, but became obsolescent pretty quickly, the Riley isn't selling, and the Adess was junk out of the box.

No matter how many choices one is given, in a customer car dominated class, the customer will still decide the market.
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Old 26 May 2017, 22:32 (Ref:3736265)   #1358
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
There isn't a strict limit of 5. There was 5 and then Norma was added, bringing it to 6. Dome then dropped out and it was back down to 5.

Ginetta
Ligier
Norma
Ave Riley
Adess
There is indeed a strict limit of five: http://sportscar365.com/lemans/elms/...-constructors/

Dome withdrew before Norma was approved.
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Old 26 May 2017, 23:06 (Ref:3736268)   #1359
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Bcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBcarr6 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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And still, out of those 5, only Ligier (Onroak) and Norma are relevant as far as race winning cars. 5-6 cars might be allowed, but if two emerge as the best, those are the ones that will sell. The Ginetta might have launched the class, but became obsolescent pretty quickly, the Riley isn't selling, and the Adess was junk out of the box.

No matter how many choices one is given, in a customer car dominated class, the customer will still decide the market.


I think it's unfair to say the Ginetta wasn't as good, there's been plenty of races to show its speed, the phase out of those cars was more due to sporting politics
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Old 27 May 2017, 08:30 (Ref:3736297)   #1360
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I think it's unfair to say the Ginetta wasn't as good, there's been plenty of races to show its speed, the phase out of those cars was more due to sporting politics
Quality and support was an issue too. The car was fast enough but it had serious build quality problems and a few teams had some very harsh words about the cars publicly.

The Norma was in the design process before Dome pulled out. At one point we did have 6 potential LMP3s. And at one point that limit was also 4. It isn't a hard limit and will move if they want it to.
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Old 27 May 2017, 10:16 (Ref:3736311)   #1361
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Quality and support was an issue too. The car was fast enough but it had serious build quality problems and a few teams had some very harsh words about the cars publicly.



The Norma was in the design process before Dome pulled out. At one point we did have 6 potential LMP3s. And at one point that limit was also 4. It isn't a hard limit and will move if they want it to.


Fair point, my thought was more about the Ginettas outright pace which as you say was good. Shame the reliability wasn't high enough.

Honestly I'd like to see another solid manufacturer

I discount Riley for now, maybe they got lost building the P2 and forgot about the P3.

Adess have been pretty average only managing success in less competitive series

It'd be good to have 4 realistic level pegged manufacturers
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Old 29 May 2017, 20:43 (Ref:3737227)   #1362
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Yes indeed. Definitely want in stuck to the tarmac.

That splitter looks like a wing! If he does go off, he may be able to glide back to the starting line
More details of the Romain Dumas Norma MXX RD Limited.
http://www.endurance-info.com/fr/rom...-a-pikes-peak/
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Old 6 Jun 2017, 22:07 (Ref:3739114)   #1363
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hondafan37 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
New Pescarolo LM-04 for V de V, Sprint Serie, 24H Proto Creventic and a new Pescarolo Cup.
https://fr.motorsport.com/endurance/...urance-915022/
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Old 6 Jun 2017, 22:32 (Ref:3739117)   #1364
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New Pescarolo LM-04 for V de V, Sprint Serie, 24H Proto Creventic and a new Pescarolo Cup.
https://fr.motorsport.com/endurance/...urance-915022/
Well that kind of came out of nowhere. I wonder if they had interest in doing a P3 car but we're locked out of the market?
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Old 7 Jun 2017, 03:44 (Ref:3739142)   #1365
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bentley speed 8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridbentley speed 8 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Seriously it is time to add a few more manufacturers to the eligible list. Ginetta, Adess and Riley are pretty much useless at this point.
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