WTCC Turbo charged 1600 engines from 2011

JMeissner · 24 Jun 2009, 17:13 (Ref:2489925)

It has been confirmed now:

The FIA World Touring Car Championship is going to move to one allowed engine type, starting from the 2011 season. The engine is going to be turbo charged, run on petrol and of 1.6 liter. The decision was taken today by the FIA World Council.

http://www.touringcartimes.com/news.php?id=3638

So, S1600 vs NGTC... Is NGTC going to stay in Britain, or take over?

duke_toaster · 24 Jun 2009, 17:18 (Ref:2489934)

1600 turbos pushing out 280hp do sound a little fragile to me ...

Hazard · 24 Jun 2009, 17:51 (Ref:2489956)

Now F1's sorted - onto touring cars hey FIA?

A 1.6 turbo. An odd move which may encourage some manufacturers back to the BTCC for that particular season - well, obviously not BMW.

duke_toaster · 24 Jun 2009, 17:56 (Ref:2489960)

BTCC will use its own NGTC formula with 2.0 turbos. NGTC is sensible, S1600T won't be.

helterskelter · 24 Jun 2009, 18:49 (Ref:2489985)

Wtcc is going another route compared to the Btcc. I like the Btcc way more, but I think this one will be okay. Well, a little less ok, but still ok...

awrb · 24 Jun 2009, 19:05 (Ref:2489992)

Do we know what else is going to change in the regs, or is it just the engine? If it's just the engine that's changing surely that still means we have the high costs. At least they're linking up with the WRC, that makes a lot of sense. I just can't see this being as good as NGTC.

Sodemo · 24 Jun 2009, 19:05 (Ref:2489993)

280BHP seems a little low.

I would prefer 350 - 400BHP.

duke_toaster · 24 Jun 2009, 19:09 (Ref:2489996)

I think 400hp would be a bit of a stretch with FWD and 1.6 engines. I do have one idea that might be practical for a formula for 500hp, 2 litres turbo and RWD - possibly even with existing cars that could be converted.

Flat12-Aircool · 24 Jun 2009, 19:12 (Ref:2489998)

Same engine for S2000 Rally cars as well, what total garbage!

Both competitions variety squeezed out by the maFIA. A parting gift from Max...

marcosgt · 24 Jun 2009, 20:36 (Ref:2490035)

Is this a 'spec' engine in that any manufacturer can build their own to the spec or a spec engine in that one manufacturer builds the engines for everyone and they fit them in their cars?

If the latter, I can't see much appeal for manufacturers, if the former why didn't they just stick with 2L n/a and disallow diesel turbos?

Cheers.

werner · 24 Jun 2009, 21:46 (Ref:2490083)

*expects another Stedevil rant about why NA-engines are stupid*

werner · 24 Jun 2009, 21:52 (Ref:2490087)

Poor Btcc, it is 2001 all over again. They have to change the rules becuase the old ones are poor. The Fia waits to long and then comes up with worse rules, but because they are universal the Brits have problems getting a variety of cars.

Hazard · 24 Jun 2009, 22:04 (Ref:2490095)

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcosgt

Is this a 'spec' engine in that any manufacturer can build their own to the spec or a spec engine in that one manufacturer builds the engines for everyone and they fit them in their cars?

The 'spec' engine isn't that they have to run the same engine to an exact design, just that the specification is fixed at a turbo charged 1.6 litre petrol powered unit.

Sodemo · 24 Jun 2009, 22:13 (Ref:2490100)

Why 1.6?

Why not 2.0L?

helterskelter · 25 Jun 2009, 01:08 (Ref:2490167)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why 1.6?

Why not 2.0L?

I think because a smaller engine, at least in theory, is less expensive. Also, remember that when you think about the turbo, you always have to multiply it by 1.7. So 1.6*1.7= 2.7. I believe the turbo is standard, in order to get the costs down, which would be good. Does anybody have an idea wether it's true or not?

Valenok · 25 Jun 2009, 06:11 (Ref:2490228)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why 1.6?

Why not 2.0L?

It is world trend - small turbocharged engine. I'd prefer more durable 2L turbo with same power output, but with longer life cycle.

I think, it's Theissen work - BMW now like such engines, their 1,6L BMW-PSA engine became Engine of the Year.

Sodemo · 25 Jun 2009, 07:57 (Ref:2490262)

Surely they would have to tune and stress a 1.6L engine much more to achieve the same power output than a 2.0L. A 2.0L turbo engine could achieve 300BHP with ease, I imagine they would have to tune it to hell to get 280BHP out of the 1.6L engines.

Valenok · 25 Jun 2009, 08:10 (Ref:2490268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Surely they would have to tune and stress a 1.6L engine much more to achieve the same power output than a 2.0L. A 2.0L turbo engine could achieve 300BHP with ease, I imagine they would have to tune it to hell to get 280BHP out of the 1.6L engines.

It's not a big problem - F2 Audi 1.8L turboengines have 400hp, but serie need 4 engines for season per car.

May be, smaller engine is not a bad choice - WTCC and other touringcar series run 100km during 2 races of 1 event, though BTCC does about 150km diring 3 races of 1 event))

davyboy · 25 Jun 2009, 09:37 (Ref:2490316)

As has already been said, we now have the BTCC going a different direction to the FIA/WTCC. This isn't good for either of them and the organizing bodies of other touring car series e.g. Swedish, will now be scratching their heads as to what direction to go. We need to learn a little more about the FIA/WTCC plans... i.e. is the engine the only change they're planning ? Will we be running S2000 cars with spec 1600 turbo motors or will other elements of the car/powertrain be changed too. The multi-purpose approach i.e. rallying and racing is something that has been mooted for a while and its a very good idea. I'm not sure whether it will just be a junior category or whether it will replace the current WRC class... if the latter its unlikely to get a good reception from the current drivers I would have thought.

MikeD · 25 Jun 2009, 18:12 (Ref:2490586)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Why 1.6?

Why not 2.0L?

I think it's because the future of the car market will be smaller engines.

PS: Since the size of the restrictor haven't been decided yet, I see the 280 bhp as pure speculation.

I actually like this rule. It will be cheap and the manufacturers can easily switch between WTCC and WRC, which might be temptating for some brands. Citroën and Ford in the WRC are very happy with it, and they expect several manufacturers to be interested in joining both WRC and WTCC after this announcement.

werner · 25 Jun 2009, 20:05 (Ref:2490642)

It can not be much more if you want to keep FWD-cars competitive. No FWD-car can handle 400hp.

**touringlegend** · 25 Jun 2009, 22:14 (Ref:2490722)

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner

Poor Btcc, it is 2001 all over again. They have to change the rules becuase the old ones are poor. The Fia waits to long and then comes up with worse rules, but because they are universal the Brits have problems getting a variety of cars.

Not so sure if thats the case entirely.

I believe TOCA maybe brought forward news of the rule changes to state their ground quite obviously.

Valenok · 26 Jun 2009, 06:36 (Ref:2490849)

Because of spec engine and other detailes, I think it's time to turn to another model for BMW, 1st series instead of 3rd. Touringcars become smaller and smaller, and 3rd serie look like ancient thing - it's most expensive model on the grid. Additionaly BMW can take a part in rally racing)
And 3rd serie must be promoted another way - GT racing (GT2/GT3), Superstars or DTM (if ITR decide to extend series geografy).

**FIRE** · 26 Jun 2009, 09:39 (Ref:2490949)

Manufacturers use more and more small turbo engines so I understand why they want them in racing too. In the touring car version the power output will be 290~310 bhp but I assume the rally version will have more power. For reliable reasons I would say a 1.8L or 2.0L engine is a better choice.

Sodemo · 26 Jun 2009, 17:02 (Ref:2491211)

Quote:

Originally Posted by werner

It can not be much more if you want to keep FWD-cars competitive. No FWD-car can handle 400hp.

The last Neil Brown Super Touring Honda engine spec produced around 330BHP, not far off 400BHP...

Surely its all down to the diff used?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Smaller turbo engines and bigger wheels planned for WTCC	JMeissner	Touring Car Racing	100	22 Dec 2008 21:09
Turbo compound engines?	chris1600	Formula One	11	13 May 2008 06:51
Max's Grand New Plan. Spec Chassis and Bio Turbo Engines.	Hazza	Formula One	118	28 Jun 2007 19:21
Turbo CVH Engines	Flat Out Farr	Racing Technology	11	21 Jun 2006 07:29
If I knew I was famous, I would have charged more...	MolsonBoy	Motorsport Art & Photography	4	20 Jun 2003 20:42