|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
15 Feb 2021, 19:56 (Ref:4035317) | #301 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 6,081
|
Quote:
Re the next PU in 2025/6 I was under the impression that Marko had recently said that aligning with a new manufacturer was their priority, and specifically mentioned positive discussions with Porsche already in this project, and indeed (Porsche) has attended a number of F1 engine working group sessions recently. |
|||
|
15 Feb 2021, 23:43 (Ref:4035352) | #302 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
||
|
16 Feb 2021, 05:26 (Ref:4035367) | #303 | ||
Race Official
1% Club
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 46,683
|
|||
__________________
Happy David Thexton Day, 21st March 2003 “I am not uncertain” - Dollar Bill Stern, Billions “Fear stimulates my imagination” - Don Draper, Mad Men “Everybody Lies” - Dr Gregory House, House “Trust But Verify” - Commissioner Frank Reagan, Blue Bloods |
16 Feb 2021, 12:48 (Ref:4035426) | #304 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,003
|
Of course, if they can recruit a load of engine specialists, doing it all in-house and being successful may just work, especially if they have seen there is a very straightforward engine from 2025 and which is heavily restricted in development.
It could also be a lobbying position - as in, we’ve got to run this ourselves now, we’re an important team, don’t overcomplicate the engine regs, please - we need to show off our aerodynamics. |
|
|
17 Feb 2021, 12:33 (Ref:4035560) | #305 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,396
|
We’ll have to see who they can recruit. 2025 is a long ahead. They need to concentrate on getting this season done and focusing on next year
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
17 Feb 2021, 12:46 (Ref:4035562) | #306 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,347
|
Any team not planning for 2025 onwards now, is planning to fail. To be in with a chance of success, the organisation must be developed now.
|
||
|
17 Feb 2021, 14:06 (Ref:4035571) | #307 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,222
|
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
17 Feb 2021, 16:38 (Ref:4035597) | #308 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,857
|
Quote:
* Implement the planned Honda upgrades (Honda item) * Ensure reliability before hand over (Honda item but pressure from RBR) * Build up proper infrastructure in both technology (equipment, etc.) and also human resources. * Ensure they go into 2022 with a fully functioning organization that can provide power units as well as the required event level support that the probably have been getting via Honda personnel. This would include behind the scenes technical monitoring (health of power unit, etc.) Its all doable, but not a trivial amount of work. And while they have likely been working/planning to make it happen, they really only just recently were able to push the real "go" button. Now is where the rubber meets the road a they say. In parallel to these efforts would be any involvement in 2025+ specification. I suspect that they have a real understanding of the investment they are making now and that is likely to drive a desire to keep doing it inhouse in 2025+. I really hope the 2025+ solution is simple enough and cost effective enough that someone like Red Bull can make it work inhouse. But the success of the work now and success of 2022 is the foundation for 2025 plans. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
17 Feb 2021, 17:14 (Ref:4035603) | #309 | |||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,222
|
Quote:
Maybe then the focus should initially be on this year and getting those power unit upgrades implemented, before Honda leaves at the end of the year and the freeze comes into force in 2022? Then as you say, run the 2025+ specification in parallel. |
|||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
17 Feb 2021, 17:24 (Ref:4035604) | #310 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,347
|
RBR will have finite resources, and where they apply these is key.
What are the likelihoods of success if they load against: 2021 - lowest 2022 - middle 2025 - highest What impact does loading against each timeline have: 2021 - improves short term, some improvement medium term, minimal long term. 2022 - no short term gain, high medium term, minimal long term. 2025 - no short term, minimal medium, high long term gain. So their best chance of success, and to sustain it long term, is to prioritise resources to the 2025+ programme. |
||
|
17 Feb 2021, 17:56 (Ref:4035609) | #311 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,857
|
Quote:
Or maybe we are saying the same thing, but in different ways. What I am saying is that if they fail at 2022-4, then they have little chance of 2025 working as a power unit manufacture. As as much as someone can say they should focus on 2025, the reality (and needs) of 2022 can't be ignored. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
17 Feb 2021, 18:00 (Ref:4035610) | #312 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,347
|
Quote:
My point is about the spread of resource - I.e. prioritise resource on 2025+, whilst keeping enough resource on 2021 to retain their WCC standing and developing capacity during the 22-25 timeframe. Not an easy task to manage, but if someone is able to project manage it successfully they will prove to be one of F1's finest assets. |
|||
|
17 Feb 2021, 18:43 (Ref:4035614) | #313 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,857
|
Quote:
Again, I hope it works out of for them as I hope it sets a new trend of viable non-manufacture power unit providers. Richard |
||
__________________
To paraphrase Mark Twain... "I'm sorry I wrote such a long post; I didn't have time to write a short one." |
17 Feb 2021, 18:59 (Ref:4035616) | #314 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,744
|
bit of a side question, but where does Honda build their F1 engines out of?
|
||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
17 Feb 2021, 19:07 (Ref:4035618) | #315 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,003
|
To be fair to Red Bull, they've proven to be a very handy team for the best part of ten years. Mercedes might be dominating, but they're there to pick up the pieces. Operationally they are probably one of the best. Look at how they've made themselves the best pit stoppers, for instance. This could be the making of them. Or their downfall, but they've painted themselves into a corner ('not a customer team') where they have no option.
|
|
|
17 Feb 2021, 19:20 (Ref:4035619) | #316 | ||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,347
|
|||
|
17 Feb 2021, 20:40 (Ref:4035625) | #317 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 9,744
|
|||
__________________
Home, is where I want to be but I guess I'm already there I come home, she lifted up her wings guess that this must be the place |
17 Feb 2021, 23:16 (Ref:4035634) | #318 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,090
|
You'd be looking just about here - note the fairly discreet Mugen signage.
|
|
__________________
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes. |
18 Feb 2021, 05:23 (Ref:4035645) | #319 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 18,396
|
Honda certainly did better in recent seasons than when they initially came back to F1 with McLaren in the mid 10s. I did wonder if they were cut out to be in F1 in this day and age. And it's not really a surprise they are now leaving again, even if they have finally managed to find success. They never seemed to fit in
|
|
__________________
He who dares wins! He who hesitates is lost! |
18 Feb 2021, 16:06 (Ref:4035738) | #320 | ||
Race Official
20KPINAL
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 23,222
|
When Yusuke Hasegawa left as head of Honda F1 at the end of 2017, he said Honda had very high expectations and that was their big mistake. They were too ambitious and were simply not ready for a return to F1 having been away for seven years.
Despite the initial move to STR and then to RB, I think Honda were constantly trying to play catch up. 7 years is a long time to be out of something like F1. https://pressfrom.info/uk/news/sport...f1-return.html |
||
__________________
"If you're not winning you're not trying." Colin Chapman. |
18 Feb 2021, 16:12 (Ref:4035740) | #321 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 18,739
|
Quote:
IIRC Mugen had already a factory in UK before Honda's McLaren involvement in 2015. |
||
|
19 Feb 2021, 22:56 (Ref:4035968) | #322 | ||
14th
1% Club
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 42,585
|
Was the MK operation set up for both “Honda” and “Mugen”? I think it was that rather than take over a Mugen facility, although they were close by anyway
https://komarjohari.wordpress.com/20...poke-premises/ https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature...nquer-f1-again https://www.eurosport.com/formula-1/...21/story.shtml |
||
__________________
Seriously not taking motorsport too seriously. |
20 Feb 2021, 02:05 (Ref:4035976) | #323 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,941
|
Quote:
Gosh, Milton Keynes sure is glamorous! Last edited by V8 Fireworks; 20 Feb 2021 at 02:14. |
||
|
20 Feb 2021, 10:36 (Ref:4036003) | #324 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,090
|
Quote:
I don't think RBR can move the engine stuff to where they are, unless they pay surrounding businesses to move off the estate they're in. I had a chance to visit a few years back and compared to (say) Williams or Mercedes with their tidy enclosed sites, RBR felt like a bit of a hodge podge of industrial units with a public road through the middle. Don't get me wrong, inside it was spectacular like the others, but totally different outside. Just remembered some staff looking at my car funny when I arrived... Turned out my front offside caliper was binding and they could see the smoke when I parked up |
||
__________________
Walk a mile in someone else's shoes. When they realise you have, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes. |
20 Feb 2021, 10:43 (Ref:4036004) | #325 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,178
|
Interesting to see that Volkswagen are considering spinning Porsche out of VAG via a possible flotation to raise funds for continued electricfication of the VAG models.
Perhaps Red Bull might buy a stake in Porsche and then bring them into F1 as either engine brand or do a 'Stroll' and have Porsche F1 Racing? Sent from my SNE-LX1 using Tapatalk |
|
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
BMW to announce withdrawl from F1? | Sodemo | Formula One | 162 | 3 Aug 2009 15:05 |
Withdrawl symptoms... | Redneck Rocket | Historic Racing Today | 20 | 21 Mar 2007 09:29 |
GM confirms Chevy withdrawl from IRL at end of year | Fogelhund | IRL Indycar Series | 17 | 24 Aug 2005 03:05 |
Racing Withdrawl | macdaddy | ChampCar World Series | 4 | 9 Jan 2005 20:50 |
MG withdrawl expected | Reido Rules | Touring Car Racing | 35 | 14 Sep 2002 15:38 |