[VASC19R25] SuperCheap Auto Bathurst 1000, Mount Panorama 10-13th October (WITH POLL)

[gtcapri]

Originally Posted by Tourer

Nup - the requirements for maintaining gaps under SC conditions have been in place for a very long time, well before the 2015 example you mention.

Further to all this, apparently the stewards are investigating whether car 12's actions impacted on the result of the race.

Cool, so 888 knew the ramifications then and chose to do it in 2015, much like DJR/Penske did yesterday. I'm guessing a number of teams may have done the same thing in the same circumstances. I guess it depends what side of the fence you sit on how offended you get.

[Tourer]

Probably gtcapri although yesterday's example was certainly highlighted more during the race and might have stood out more given that the field was reasonably bunched up prior to the SC conditions. If the field was more spread out when other teams have slowed their 2nd car up then it would not have been obvious and probably not a breach at the time. The rules were heavily re-written last year and there may be some subtle changes that occurred then.

Further info on the stewards hearing for DJRTP here. To be held at the GC600 in a couple of weeks - I would imagine that social media is likely to melt down for the next couple of weeks and then again after the decision is handed down, whichever way it ends up.

[Jack65]

Irrespective of what side of who you barrack for, it was a low act and should be penalised heavily, Larry Perkins called it correctly. If CAMS are serious the punishment will be severe enough for nobody to ever try it again. They could impose a massive fine, but Roger's not short of a quid so that wouldn't really hurt. For mine a points deduction from the team's championship to the extent that means DJRTP could no longer win it.

[Compromised]

Umm...Fabs was already penalized and team orders aren't against regulations so not sure what you're after????

[Driver TBA]

Having a good belly laugh at some of the comments.

The investigation will in no way alter the podium. Move on!

A few team points and a suspended fine is all it's worthy of at worst.

IMO, NZ last year was far worse.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

[Jack65]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Umm...Fabs was already penalized and team orders aren't against regulations so not sure what you're after????

Must be something hence CAMS conducting a further investigation. Unlikely to alter the podium, but will send a clear message how serious (or not serious) CAMS are about eradicating low dog acts.

[johnh875]

Originally Posted by Trevor

unless you are on the track doing a recovery or treating another when one of these idiots go past your arse at warp speed

As in "There IS a problem for Drivers not backing off through an incident area covered by yellows." ???

I haven't gone back over things that much, but I wonder what real impact Fabian's action had? Certainly meant that SVG couldn't block McLaughlin in while double-stacking, but what else? Closed the lead-lap cars up so perhaps a car that had stopped during the previous SC may have jumped another car in the pits that otherwise wouldn't have happened. Otherwise I'm thinking lapped cars might have been further up the train.

The wailing about 40 sec delay is pretty immaterial when the cars were then held behind the SC after the stops.

Also the talk of not being within 4 car lengths - surely this only applies when in the SC train, not beforehand.

[Mixer]

It is a shame that we have to have the investigation and the vitriol that will come with it, because it was really unnecessary.

The race seemed to be incredible equal on pace, with different people having pace at different times, and cars making pace differently because of configuration and passage through a stint.

I think all 3 makes were as equal as we saw between Commodore, Falcon and Volvo. The pace up the front was pretty incredible with DJRTP, 888 and Tickford all hanging in there, with a Nissan right with them on genuine pace.

Each of the cars up the front made their own call based on their circumstances and everyone other than Whincup took a bet on there being further safety cars.

Of course safety cars beget safety cars, but its easy for me to say that now.

I absolutely loved how hard the lead 4 were driving that last stint of the race, and there was nothing to split them.

I wonder what happens next year when you don't have 3 guys only a year out of fill time competition.

I reckon from watching Tander, that GT racing seems to be pretty good for keeping your eye in.

[Jack65]

Originally Posted by Mixer

It is a shame that we have to have the investigation and the vitriol that will come with it, because it was really unnecessary.

It's unfortunate that it happened, and taken some of the gloss off of a deserved win. But if it draws a line in the sand that unsportsmanlike behaviour isn't on, then long term the sport will be better off. Even the most one-eyed DJRTP supporters would have to concede Ryan Story was telling porkies.

[Driver TBA]

https://www.supercars.com/news/champ...s-regulations/



"Following the controversy, Supercars has clarified to media that team orders are in fact legal, provided they are given by a team member, as opposed to a third party."

Have the rules changed since?

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[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Driver TBA

"Following the controversy, Supercars has clarified to media that team orders are in fact legal,

Nice try.

A team order is when DJRTP tell Rubens to pull over and let Scotty win.

Not to hold up the entire field behind him for more than 40 seconds so he doesn't have to double stack.

Also, I forgot to mention it before, but Richie Stanaway is a complete idiot, and has no place in a professional field of race drivers.

That carry on with Jacobsen should see him sit out the next race. If both of them were found responsible, then both should sit out. I don't have all the data the stewards have, but it looked to me that Richie absolutely failed to provide racing room, and deliberately crowded and hit Garry until both of them were taken out.

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by 275 GTB-4

There is NO problem with drivers speeding up to catch the pack under SC. There IS a problem for Drivers not backing off through an incident area covered by yellows.

The whole track is covered under yellows in a safety car situation is it not 275?

Given the instructions to one of the two lead drivers to "push push" heard on the telecast and the two leaders doing a 2:08 on the in lap probably says it all.

[Denosaur]

Mr Phelps claiming that Scott could possibly be stripped of the win.
(Sorry, not posting a link as it might not work)

I honestly thought he disappeared reporting on the series??

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Denosaur

Mr Phelps claiming that Scott could possibly be stripped of the win.
(Sorry, not posting a link as it might not work)

I guess someone has to read the regs and find out if its possible.

The pit prediction software everybody uses is likely to be able to tell you whether SVG might have come out ahead of Scott if he wasn't held back, and if that is the case, perhaps someone could make a case for literally artificially affecting the result.

But even if someone could make that case, is there an appetite for doing it?

The whole sport has been rejuvenated by Ford and Penske's return, and by Scotty's performance this year, albeit under a cloud because of the ongoing parity mismanagement.

I am guessing it is clickbait, and its Fairfax. Read it this way, Scotty could be stripped of the win. I could be the next man on the moon too.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Nice try.

A team order is when DJRTP tell Rubens to pull over and let Scotty win.

Not to hold up the entire field behind him for more than 40 seconds so he doesn't have to double stack.

Which Fabian was rightly punished for. Perplexed as to what you guys want out of this? Better written rules? Bloody oath if that's the case, but it's hardly Penske's fault

[drftin]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Nice try.

A team order is when DJRTP tell Rubens to pull over and let Scotty win.

Not to hold up the entire field behind him for more than 40 seconds so he doesn't have to double stack.

Also, I forgot to mention it before, but Richie Stanaway is a complete idiot, and has no place in a professional field of race drivers.

That carry on with Jacobsen should see him sit out the next race. If both of them were found responsible, then both should sit out. I don't have all the data the stewards have, but it looked to me that Richie absolutely failed to provide racing room, and deliberately crowded and hit Garry until both of them were taken out.

It's Richie's fault that Gary outbraked himself and backed into the side of #33?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Compromised

Which Fabian was rightly punished for. Perplexed as to what you guys want out of this? Better written rules? Bloody oath if that's the case, but it's hardly Penske's fault

Well, lets look at 2 issues:

1. Cars racing back to the pits when SC is called. Do we close the pits until cars are under SC control? Do we use a technology like CODE60? Each of these approaches has positives and negatives and the teams themselves make the rules, so they have to have an appetite for change. I don't like racing back to the pits either.
2. Fabian deliberately held almost the entire field back for no reason other than a team gain, and I take a dim view of that, and I think a real investigation is warranted, and a fairly severe punishment given. We all probably know this is likely to be team points and a financial penalty, which to Penske literally means nothing.

[Compromised]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Well, lets look at 2 issues:

1. Cars racing back to the pits when SC is called. Do we close the pits until cars are under SC control? Do we use a technology like CODE60? Each of these approaches has positives and negatives and the teams themselves make the rules, so they have to have an appetite for change. I don't like racing back to the pits either.
2. Fabian deliberately held almost the entire field back for no reason other than a team gain, and I take a dim view of that, and I think a real investigation is warranted, and a fairly severe punishment given. We all probably know this is likely to be team points and a financial penalty, which to Penske literally means nothing.

Totally agree with point 1 - there is no silver bullet. Definitely something that requires a lot of thought before making changes.

As to point 2, I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Team orders are allowed so that's kosher and Fabian was given (as per the regs) a drive through for not maintaining the correct gap.

Are you advocating for some form of extra judicial punishment?

[chavez]

Originally Posted by Compromised

a drive through for not maintaining the correct gap.

I can't recall this penalty being applied this season. It would have happened countless occasion this year. Coulthard's was perhaps the most blatant example but far from the only time.

Even on the last lap behind the safety car (ie lap 160) there were gaps in the field greater than 4 car lengths.

Why aren't those drivers being pinged?

[thunderbolt]

i see this the same as f1 crash gate
Confederation of Australian Motor Sport have confirmed the 2019 Bathurst 1000 results remain provisional until the hearing.

[bluesport]

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

i see this the same as f1 crash gate
Confederation of Australian Motor Sport have confirmed the 2019 Bathurst 1000 results remain provisional until the hearing.

Oh no, Coulthard may be disqualified from the results!!!

[Umai Naa]

The point is, those involved with car #12, took the mickey on the safety car proceedure.

Also, wouldn't driving quicker to get more airflow through the radiator, be more effective at bringing temps down, than dawdling?

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by thunderbolt

i see this the same as f1 crash gate
Confederation of Australian Motor Sport have confirmed the 2019 Bathurst 1000 results remain provisional until the hearing.

You know what, it isn't the same as that at all, intentionally crashing to cause a safety car to give your team a free kick is a whole lot worse than just bunching up the field behind the safety car.

[Forda]

Originally Posted by Umai Naa

The point is, those involved with car #12, took the mickey on the safety car proceedure.

Also, wouldn't driving quicker to get more airflow through the radiator, be more effective at bringing temps down, than dawdling?

The safety car procedure is flawed anyway, and this was very recently highlighted when 888 overtook the SC in Auckland.

Overheating engines can benefit enormously from winding back speed significantly, in certain overheating situations.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Compromised

As to point 2, I'm sorry, I still don't get it. Team orders are allowed so that's kosher and Fabian was given (as per the regs) a drive through for not maintaining the correct gap.

First of all, team orders have NOTHING TO DO with this so stop trying to misdirect the conversation.

Originally Posted by Compromised

Are you advocating for some form of extra judicial punishment?

I think the infraction was serious enough that it warrants a further look, including listening to the team radio, telemetry etc.

The team colluded to artificially alter the race results, and I am sure there's rules that allow that to be investigated, a PLP isn't the final say.