Pull your finger out McLaren! or you'll lose Kimi!

[freud]

No I dont mind at all.. I remember old JV used to have the second highest pay-check in f1 (what was it $10 million a year??) It will be interesting to compare with some of the other drivers...

Anyway yeah I agree lets not get there. Lets stay with Kimi and Mclaren.

[Kicking-back]

I wonder why some people love to criticise Kimi and McLaren so much?

Incidentally, if it wasn't for that blown Merc at the Nurburgring, Kimi would be world champion.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Kicking-back

Incidentally, if it wasn't for that blown Merc at the Nurburgring, Kimi would be world champion.

K-B, posts like this won't do you any good my friend, i've been spouting off for months that had it not been for 2 blown engines (Austria and Japan) JPM would be world champion

[Mr V]

Originally posted by freud
If he was that great, there would be no reason for Ron Dennis to reportedly pay $20 million a season to get JPM and try his best to buy him out of his cotract for 2004.

Originally posted by enemy-ace
Link to back this up?

Originally posted by freud
I read it somewhere..

Sorry to interupt the party boys

In 2005 JPM's payment will be £5.6mill ($9 mill??), not too sure about 2006. Should the Montoya/Mclaren relationship survive, the contract stipulates that his annual payment will be capped at $18 mill, but that will be in a few years yet.

[enemy-ace]

I think you might have missed the party altogether Mr.V!
I believe your initial quote of Freud's was referring to Kimi as being the one that Ron wanted to buy out of his contract.

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by enemy-ace
I think you might have missed the party altogether Mr.V!
I believe your initial quote of Freud's was referring to Kimi as being the one that Ron wanted to buy out of his contract.

If you read the quote you'll see that's not the case.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by freud
He's been criticizing the Mclaren team since the start of winter testing last year.

He was criticizing the car (big difference IMO) and so far, he proved to be 100% right.

[Glen]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
I wonder why some people love to criticise Kimi and McLaren so much?

Incidentally, if it wasn't for that blown Merc at the Nurburgring, Kimi would be world champion.

Mclaren are getting criticism because they richly deserve it - a quality team like that simply shouldn't be in this situation. Their failure to launch a new car on the race track at all last year should at least have put them in pole position to hit the ground running in 2004 - they haven't... big let-down.

I don't have any corresponding criticism of Kimi though - his performance last year was fabulous for the most part, although to say that but for a blown engine he'd be WDC is stretching credibility to say the least! He also made a couple of gross errors in qualifying - perhaps that would have been enough to lose it for him.

[enemy-ace]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
If you read the quote you'll see that's not the case.

If that's the case, then what's the announcement going to concern?

Originally posted by freud
I read it somewhere.. you will see in a few months when the announcement comes out.

[Mr V]

e-a, i could sell a story to the news of the world saying that my granny was going to be Michaels fitness trainer next year, but that doesn't necessarily mean its true

[enemy-ace]

Probably why I stated earlier that I would be taking it "with a large shaker of salt"
I think there are one to many crossed wires here.

[climb]

I think that no innuendo is realistic until MS is in thew business: infact apart from cohabitation problems at FW, there is no certainty of improvement unless you go to Ferrari.
But, as we know no top driver will join the prancing horse outfit as long as MS is there.

[Gt_R]

Quote:"Kimi is a great prospect for f1. But, at least for now, he is not a complete driver."

Ouch...honestly, that applies to practically every driver besides Michael.

Neither is Webber/Montoya/Alonso complete, so Kimi is in pretty much good company.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by climb
But, as we know no top driver will join the prancing horse outfit as long as MS is there.

True, that's because they know Ferrari wouldn't make them as rich as, say, McLaren. (Of course, they could also be scared of MS )

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Yoong Montoya
(Of course, they could also be scared of MS )

Until Ferrari put forward that offer, or Michael agrees to it? we will never know if they are scared or not.

However, it will never happen, it's unlikely that Ferrari/Michael would want a Montoya/Raikkonen/Alonso to come in and upset what Ferrari/Michael currently have.

It's also unlikely that Montoya/Raikkonen/Alonso would want to come in and possibly play second fiddle to michael.

What ever the reasons, its a shame for us as fans.

[Gt_R]

The thing that is more important is, does Ferrari see a reason for signing those mentioned.

A couple of drivers blabber about how Ferrari plays no.1/no.2 and how Michael refuses to have a good teammate, but fact is they are merely shooting their mouths off, because Ferrari never wanted them, nor Michael rejected them, but simply those drivers know they won't have a chance to be proved wrong.

Ferrari/Michael had lately complimented Raikkonen/Alonso, and seems impressed that perhaps these 2 may feature in the future of Ferrari. It's really up to the agents to start striking up talks with Ferrari. Because remember, none of those drivers are bigger than Ferrari, Ferrari doesn't NEED them to survive.

[freud]

I will let Ron Dennis do the talking... it will be more than what Ralf is currently making at Williams.

GT-R, You are wrong. Its not that they are incomplete drivers... its just that they dont have a complete package.

Give Mark Webber a Ferrari and he will win the title. Its just plain ironic that young guys dont have good cars. I stick to my words... Webber is more mature and overall a better package than Kimi.

[freud]

Originally posted by Gt_R


A couple of drivers blabber about how Ferrari plays no.1/no.2 and how Michael refuses to have a good teammate, but fact is they are merely shooting their mouths off, because Ferrari never wanted them, nor Michael rejected them, but simply those drivers know they won't have a chance to be proved wrong.

I dont get this . Everyone knows that Ferrari offered KR and JPM a seat last year but both did not wanted to play second fiddle to Michael. Rubens is probably the only poor chap left on the grid who can take the Ferrari non-sense. I do applaud Kimi for rejecting the Ferrari offer last year because he did not wanted to be a lap dog.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by freud
Everyone knows that Ferrari offered KR and JPM a seat last year but both did not wanted to play second fiddle to Michael........ I do applaud Kimi for rejecting the Ferrari offer last year because he did not wanted to be a lap dog.

First i've heard of it :confused:

[Jukebox]

freud....if i remember correctly kimi was offered to replace Rubens after a season as a test driver with Ferrari but he picked McLaren. JPM???? ....that certainly is news to me.

You are lettin your imagination get the better of you....

[Kicking-back]

Originally posted by Glen
I don't have any corresponding criticism of Kimi though - his performance last year was fabulous for the most part, although to say that but for a blown engine he'd be WDC is stretching credibility to say the least!

Rubbish.

The blown engine cost him at least six, and probably ten points.

(Nurburgring)

And he only missed out on the title by two points.

[BootsOntheSide]

And Michael gained 1 further point from it, so it can be thought of as 11 lost points. Worst of all, it gave that smug Schumacher 2 a victory.

Becoming #2 to Schumacher is the easiest way to destroy an otherwise promising career. You won't get equal support from the team, and once the title race intensifies, you don't get equal equipment. Kimi's chocie of McLaren was quite logical - firstly, he didn't miss a season's racing, and secondly he knew he'd have a chance to become the leading McLaren driver before long.

[Glen]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Rubbish.

The blown engine cost him at least six, and probably ten points.

(Nurburgring)

And he only missed out on the title by two points.

You look at it such a profoundly one-sided way that you miss the point completely! I know he lost six points or more on that occassion - he also lost major points with cock-ups in qualifying, so why pick on the Nurburgring example? (might it be because that example shows him in a good light?). JPM also lost major points with mechanical failures, but you didn't state that if it weren't for those times Kimi would have been beaten by him - because it suits your bias to remember it in your own way!

All you have really stated is that he would have won if only he scored enough points!

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Glen
You look at it such a profoundly one-sided way that you miss the point completely! I know he lost six points or more on that occassion - he also lost major points with cock-ups in qualifying, so why pick on the Nurburgring example? (might it be because that example shows him in a good light?).

Agreed, yes, the engine failure did cost alot of points, but Kimi's "disasters" in a few of the qualifying sessions, cost alot more.

[Kicking-back]

I'm not being one-sided.

I was using that incident as an example against those who try to say that Kimi wasn't a worthy contender and was not a "complete" driver like MS.

MS made mistakes at the start of the season.

Kimi's qualifying problems in Spain and Canada were a result of pushing the car harder than it wanted to do.

He still did a better job overall than most drivers did.