Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 1 Aug 2007, 08:49 (Ref:1977955)   #1
inpitlane
Veteran
 
inpitlane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Parts Unknown
Posts: 1,005
inpitlane should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Jane attacks CAMS over Brock death.

Bob Jane has released an open letter to CAMS and the local motorsport media, implicating the organisation in the death of Australian Motorsport Legend Peter Brock.
In the letter Jane said "Peter Brock is dead and many more are also dead, think about the race car Peter drove and who condoned Peter’s race vehicle's use in this competition event. CAMS did in a race car that did not meet any design rule criteria, and think about your management or more to the point your lack of ability to manage safety in motor sport, which is your only real charter from the FIA."

The full text of the letter can be accessed from http://www.motorsport.com.au/cams/documents.html or the In Pit Lane website. www.pitlanepr.com/inpitlane
inpitlane is offline  
__________________
IN PIT LANE
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 10:02 (Ref:1978040)   #2
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
CAMS

Quote:
Originally Posted by inpitlane
Bob Jane has released an open letter to CAMS and the local motorsport media, implicating the organisation in the death of Australian Motorsport Legend Peter Brock.
In the letter Jane said "Peter Brock is dead and many more are also dead, think about the race car Peter drove and who condoned Peter’s race vehicle's use in this competition event. CAMS did in a race car that did not meet any design rule criteria, and think about your management or more to the point your lack of ability to manage safety in motor sport, which is your only real charter from the FIA."

The full text of the letter can be accessed from http://www.motorsport.com.au/cams/documents.html or the In Pit Lane website. www.pitlanepr.com/inpitlane
Whilst I am the first to admit to being frustrated by the current schemozzle over who controls Motorsport in this country....I cannot totally agree with Mr Jane that CAMS significantly contributed to PBs death....

Peter was vastly experienced and chose to use that car knowing full well its shortcomings. Others have refused to drive marginal cars without insisting on changes or necessary safety mods...PB made two mistakes (one was choosing a vehicle with safety issues and the other was coming into the bend too hot) ...the combination proved fatal.

Very sad...RIP PB.

I also hope that Bob gets some sort of closure out of writing the book...I hate to see someone who has contributed so much to Motorsport in this country....expressing so much bitterness.

Last edited by 275 GTB-4; 1 Aug 2007 at 10:04.
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 10:03 (Ref:1978041)   #3
Matthew Ronke
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Australia
NSW
Posts: 707
Matthew Ronke should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
This old edition (at bottom) of Racer magazine headline probably doesn't help much.

Matthew Ronke is offline  
__________________
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports, all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway.
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 10:13 (Ref:1978047)   #4
TWRv12
Veteran
 
TWRv12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,975
TWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTWRv12 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It might be good thing if it puts pressure on CAMS and ultimately the FIA to improve side impact protection.
TWRv12 is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 10:54 (Ref:1978086)   #5
kmsport
Veteran
 
kmsport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Australia
SA
Posts: 692
kmsport has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Quote:
Originally Posted by TWRv12
It might be good thing if it puts pressure on CAMS and ultimately the FIA to improve side impact protection.
Yes, along with more stringent venue safety measures....yes these Targa style events are marvellous, but in their present guise there are many more seriuos accidents beckoning.
kmsport is offline  
__________________
Damn! I knew that Pole Dancing could be technical, but never to THAT degree!
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 11:45 (Ref:1978134)   #6
kramer
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 417
kramer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Poor old Bob. Not getting any more rational is he?

Nobody held a gun at Peter's head to drive the car, nor to drive in the event.

I'm no great fan of the way CAMS does things, but this sort of attack is unwarranted.


Kramer
kramer is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 12:02 (Ref:1978152)   #7
Razor
10-10ths official Trekkie
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Australia
Behind the wheel
Posts: 4,297
Razor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridRazor should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Bobby Jane, well, what can I say, slamming the CAMS fella again without looking at all the facts. While I agree to a certain extent that CAMS did not enforce more driver side impact protection, we need to look at the bigger picture. A) Brock was a little tired and wired (he just got back from the UK at Goodwood), B) Brock went into the entry of the corner a bit to quick for it's condidtion C) The thing had a high power to weight ratio and was very sqirmy under brakes and out of corners and D) The engineer had put in less side protection than what you find in a V8 Supercar for example. So Billy Bob Jane, a quote by Michael Ironside: "Think twice, act once." In other words, look at all the facts before you start verbally shootin'.
Razor is offline  
Quote
Old 1 Aug 2007, 12:41 (Ref:1978193)   #8
Pro Racer
Veteran
 
Pro Racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Australia
Earth
Posts: 8,782
Pro Racer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
i can agree a little but not fully there was other contributing factors in PB's death and have been well documented, IMO if that same accident had of happened in most cars a similar resault would of happened .

Last edited by Pro Racer; 1 Aug 2007 at 12:43.
Pro Racer is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 01:05 (Ref:1978712)   #9
Peddler
Racer
 
Peddler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Australia
Camden, NSW
Posts: 313
Peddler has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
Bob Jane is a has-been dribbler! He should shuddup and retire to his cling-on lifestyle on yester-years. It isnt 1960 anymore and **** has changed old-man!

He is a rude and angry old fart whom I absolutely detest. Detest with good reason mind you but that’s a story for another time.

His written assault on CAMS is nothing more than his ego thinking that he is some sort of authority within Australian motorsport.

Marty to Bob… “Go away you old fool”
Peddler is offline  
__________________
Cheers,
Marty

Go the Datto!!!
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 01:33 (Ref:1978719)   #10
bludvl_x19
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Australia
umop apisdn
Posts: 1,638
bludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridbludvl_x19 should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke
This old edition (at bottom) of Racer magazine headline probably doesn't help much.

If you read the article PB say iirc that the car should be banned because it is too much fun, not because of any safety issues

Michael
bludvl_x19 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 02:00 (Ref:1978723)   #11
deano2
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 276
deano2 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
if the car did not meet any design criteria or australian standard bob jane is correct in his assessment....cams have a duty of care to make sure their competitors are safe
deano2 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 03:11 (Ref:1978741)   #12
Axeman444
Veteran
 
Axeman444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Calling a spade a spade...
Posts: 4,117
Axeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAxeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
and of course this has nothing to do with the fact Jane is he head figure of an organisation in direct competition to CAMS?

anyone know if this car or a car of similar spec has run in any AASA sanctioned events?
Axeman444 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 03:12 (Ref:1978742)   #13
Chucky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Australia
Port Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,767
Chucky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And the powder room suggests it didn't.........

And still doesn't. Alledgedly.

I hear his fustration in that some just seem to be able to make things happen amongst the beauracracy of Malvern Rd.

Last edited by Chucky; 2 Aug 2007 at 03:18.
Chucky is offline  
__________________
"...full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing...."
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 03:12 (Ref:1978743)   #14
Chucky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Australia
Port Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,767
Chucky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeman444
and of course this has nothing to do with the fact Jane is he head figure of an organisation in direct competition to CAMS?

anyone know if this car or a car of similar spec has run in any AASA sanctioned events?
Just checked. No.
Chucky is offline  
__________________
"...full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing...."
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 03:45 (Ref:1978750)   #15
johnny yuma
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 626
johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
OK Bob what Targa car would you like to go side on into a tree in-exactly in the middle where the drivers head is? There has to be death by misadventure where people know the risks.
johnny yuma is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 06:53 (Ref:1978792)   #16
Senna05
Veteran
 
Senna05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Australia
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Posts: 1,269
Senna05 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
With the way momentum works, the car had to tilt up or down with a sinde on impact, and as the wheels were firmly planted on the other side, up was the way. The only place to crumple there, in any car, is around the helmet area.

While I certainly agree that more can be done to make racing safer, I think (and also admire these people) anyone going into these events full well know the risks.

Do we want space frame vehicles with a tube in the middle with the drivers wearing bubble wrap?

Bob, you are a legend, and I respect you, but be careful with your accusations. You may alienate the people you need to make changes!
Senna05 is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 08:34 (Ref:1978856)   #17
Chucky
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Australia
Port Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,767
Chucky should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
And the excuses continue.
Chucky is offline  
__________________
"...full of sound and fury, yet signifying nothing...."
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 08:34 (Ref:1978857)   #18
johnny yuma
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 626
johnny yuma should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
YES Bob Jane commands respect--those retards who bagged him are beneath contempt-but Bob has always looked after Bob,and probably still is.
johnny yuma is offline  
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 09:04 (Ref:1978878)   #19
inpitlane
Veteran
 
inpitlane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location:
Parts Unknown
Posts: 1,005
inpitlane should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeman444
and of course this has nothing to do with the fact Jane is he head figure of an organisation in direct competition to CAMS?

anyone know if this car or a car of similar spec has run in any AASA sanctioned events?
I believe Brocky ran the car in testing at Calder the week prior to leaving for Goodwood. I know we were invited to go out and film it. IIRC it may have run on both the flat track and the Dome. It may even be in the Interview with him we did the night before he flew out. I think it's still out there on iTunes.
BTW the car is no backyard special. It was constructed by Borland engineering and according to the preliminary police report as quoted in the Age recently had no impact on the accident or Brocky's death, and yes it does meet all relevant Australian Design Rules as well as those required by CAMS for Targa style events and Marque Sports Competition. It's probably also worth remembering that Trevor was also in the car and came out of it with only minor injuries.
As far as Bob is concerned everybody needs to remember that he's a been a very sick man and under a lot of stress recently.
inpitlane is offline  
__________________
IN PIT LANE
Quote
Old 2 Aug 2007, 09:47 (Ref:1978909)   #20
Bullett
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 826
Bullett should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucky
Quote:
Originally Posted by Axeman444
and of course this has nothing to do with the fact Jane is he head figure of an organisation in direct competition to CAMS?

anyone know if this car or a car of similar spec has run in any AASA sanctioned events?
Just checked. No.
Chucky I think you'll find there is. Tim Hendy runs the exact same spec Daytona in VMRC and AMRS on occasions as well as Targa and VSCRC (CAMS events). His is the same spec and was used as for the parade at VSCRC Sandown last year as it was the same paint scheme as PB's. The owner of the Daytona business also has had the like of Adam Macrow drive his car and Adam did very well and was happy with it as far as I know. It is now upgraded and has Phil Morriss (of MoTeC) driving it.
Bullett is offline  
Quote
Old 3 Aug 2007, 23:46 (Ref:1980190)   #21
ssracer
Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 55
ssracer should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What a bunch of morons wanting to place the responsibility of each cars design and safety on to anyone but the driver. If you are not dam sure its safe don't get in and drive it. What do you want, Padded shopping trolleys.
grow up and lets go racing.
ssracer is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Aug 2007, 00:23 (Ref:1981122)   #22
Matthew Ronke
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Australia
NSW
Posts: 707
Matthew Ronke should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssracer
What a bunch of morons wanting to place the responsibility of each cars design and safety on to anyone but the driver. If you are not dam sure its safe don't get in and drive it. What do you want, Padded shopping trolleys. grow up and lets go racing.

Which is probably the essence of the press release. My take on it is that CAMS only real claim to motor sport is their safety responsibilities and that is questionable.

There is a copy of an article that was pulled from publication in Racer magazine's (because of the contoversy it would cause on the Bathurst race) last edition doing the email rounds questioning Bathurst and the Mark Porter incident and how the circuit doesn't meet minimum CAMS/FIA guidelines and was ignored in the 3 previous track assessments. The story points a finger at CAMS and their management of the situation.

It starts to become clear why CAMS don't want an Australian Standard by an independent Industry group such as what Standards Australia do and have formed their own industry group the Australian Institute of Motor Sport Safety. Because it looks like their are rules for some and rules for others and safety real isn't that important after all.
Matthew Ronke is offline  
__________________
"Auto racing, bull fighting, and mountain climbing are the only real sports, all others are games." - Ernest Hemingway.
Quote
Old 5 Aug 2007, 10:50 (Ref:1981383)   #23
Raceonly
Racer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Australia
Posts: 213
Raceonly should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Maybe those running tarmac rallies should look at gravel rally events, with particular attention being paid to recce and pace noting, AND that the driver must have done recce himself. I reckon the the idea of anyone, even a fit 61 year old, competing after flying from the other side of the world immediately prior to competing is in itself inherently dangerous.
Raceonly is offline  
Quote
Old 5 Aug 2007, 11:41 (Ref:1981419)   #24
Bullett
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Australia
Melbourne
Posts: 826
Bullett should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You can blame anyone for the accident. Bob should learn to keep his mouth shut, bringing Brocks death up is stupid. Yeah blame CAMS, blame organisers of event, blame car owner, blame car builder, blame navigator blame the person who planted the tree there, blame the bloke for putting a road there, blah blah blah...geez at the end of the day Peter chose to drive the car and everyone was there by choice. Peter was tired which was a factor but to put sole blame on CAMS is a stupid opinion, another chance to start a CAMS bashing thread and for those that want to bash them to use Brockie as an excuse to do that...
Bullett is offline  
Quote
Old 6 Aug 2007, 01:27 (Ref:1982096)   #25
275 GTB-4
Veteran
 
275 GTB-4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Australia
South of Sydney NSW, Australie
Posts: 3,499
275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Whats the Answer then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Ronke
Which is probably the essence of the press release. My take on it is that CAMS only real claim to motor sport is their safety responsibilities and that is questionable.

There is a copy of an article that was pulled from publication in Racer magazine's (because of the contoversy it would cause on the Bathurst race) last edition doing the email rounds questioning Bathurst and the Mark Porter incident and how the circuit doesn't meet minimum CAMS/FIA guidelines and was ignored in the 3 previous track assessments. The story points a finger at CAMS and their management of the situation.

It starts to become clear why CAMS don't want an Australian Standard by an independent Industry group such as what Standards Australia do and have formed their own industry group the Australian Institute of Motor Sport Safety. Because it looks like their are rules for some and rules for others and safety real isn't that important after all.
Thats all well and good....so what do you want? An Australian Standard by an independent Industry group such as Standards Australia etc...here comes the same old round in circles argument again....safety costs money, thousands of miles have been raced at Bathurst (for example) over the years and there have been some deaths...but apart from poor Mike Bergman not many were caused by the track....mostly other problems like driver errors (some downright deliberate) or problems with their cars.

Not being nasty, but are you comfortable that Winton could meet the requirements of an Australian Standard without a substantial cash injection??

Having said that, there would be few tracks in Australia that haven't had an incremental (and now substantial) safety upgrade over the years (can we ignore Oran Park? )

I liken Bathurst to Monaco...an OH&S nightmare...but wonderful motor racing tracks...I'm sure both tracks are allowed some leniency/concession because of their long history and relatively little use.

Motorsport is Dangerous..I read that somewhere

Last edited by 275 GTB-4; 6 Aug 2007 at 01:30.
275 GTB-4 is offline  
__________________
The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!!
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Brock death brings call for rule change... "and here come the do-gooders" Peddler Australasian Touring Cars. 67 17 Sep 2006 10:28
Death of CAMS' President of Honour and FIA Delegate - John Large Head Rev Tributes Forum 1 25 Apr 2006 15:23
Jane/calder Sue Cams djt46 Australasian Touring Cars. 84 17 Apr 2005 12:21
Peter Brock to drive in Bob Jane 1000 Amaroo Park Australasian Touring Cars. 18 22 Jul 2002 10:40


All times are GMT. The time now is 00:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.