2016 TCR International Series news & rumours

[Fechna]

I love TCR, best formula since supertouring (TCR arguably better, racing in Germany was never that good, for some weird reason TCR does better on big gp tracks), but it will only survive when BOPs work and the whining and lobbying keeps low as long as the grids are tight.

[thlbtcc]

A couple of days old now, but a very interesting read on the reliability of the JAS made Honda http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/...nda-civic-tcr/

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by thlbtcc

A couple of days old now, but a very interesting read on the reliability of the JAS made Honda http://www.touringcartimes.com/2016/...nda-civic-tcr/

Very alarming, and the reliability seems to get worse before it gets better. If Honda wants to keep selling cars, JAS better reacts quickly.

[Bramzel]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...-24-hours.html

2L Turbo's aren't allowed in TCR right? Otherwise one could see a potential TCR car in it.

[Edit] They are apparently, though the car is 2 doors short to be allowed in:

Eligibility criteria for TCR Touring Car:
- The model of car is on the list of TCR eligible cars for 2016 published by the WSC (only front-wheel drive cars).
- The cars correspond to FIA Homologation Criteria for Touring Cars (FIA Group A).
- The model of car is produced by an OEM and belongs to a mass produced family.
- 4/5 doors
- Minimum length 4.2m
- Mono turbo charged 4-stroke petrol mass production Engines with cylinder capacity from 1750cm³ to maximum
2000cm³.
- Hybrid propulsion is not allowed.

[BSchneiderFan]

Shame the rules exclude RWD. Would love to see some 3-series Beemers out there. Touring car racing just doesn't seem right without BMW.

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Shame the rules exclude RWD. Would love to see some 3-series Beemers out there. Touring car racing just doesn't seem right without BMW.

If BMW came to Lotti and ask for permission, he wouldn't hesitate. But DTM seems more important these days. A 3 series TCR would be rats.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2016/0...-24-hours.html

2L Turbo's aren't allowed in TCR right? Otherwise one could see a potential TCR car in it.

[Edit] They are apparently, though the car is 2 doors short to be allowed in:

Eligibility criteria for TCR Touring Car:
- The model of car is on the list of TCR eligible cars for 2016 published by the WSC (only front-wheel drive cars).
- The cars correspond to FIA Homologation Criteria for Touring Cars (FIA Group A).
- The model of car is produced by an OEM and belongs to a mass produced family.
- 4/5 doors
- Minimum length 4.2m
- Mono turbo charged 4-stroke petrol mass production Engines with cylinder capacity from 1750cm³ to maximum
2000cm³.
- Hybrid propulsion is not allowed.

When I saw the DSC piece I thought directly TCR but the 2-doors are the problem. Of course there's also i30 with 2 extra doors.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by Fechna

If BMW came to Lotti and ask for permission, he wouldn't hesitate. But DTM seems more important these days. A 3 series TCR would be rats.

If BMW really wants I am sure the rules are changed.

For customers BMW has a racing version of the M235i.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Shame the rules exclude RWD. Would love to see some 3-series Beemers out there. Touring car racing just doesn't seem right without BMW.

You mean 1-Series; TCR is a class for C-segment cars.

If the rumours of the next generation 1-series going FWD prove true, there won't be any RWD cars eligible for the series anyway and it won't be an issue going forward.

[Fechna]

Well, the Subaru is just slightly smaller then the BMW 3 series. I don't see why a S2000 car can't be a TCR car.

[Beryl]

Originally Posted by Fechna

Well, the Subaru is just slightly smaller then the BMW 3 series. I don't see why a S2000 car can't be a TCR car.

The TCR category is explicitly a class for C-segment cars and it would be nonsensical to allow a D-segment car when a C-segment alternative is available.

As for the Impreza, it is both narrower and has a shorter wheelbase than the BMW 1-Series. In terms of total length, the Impreza is between the 1-Series and 3-Series; it's closer to the F20 1-Series as a hatch and closer to the 3-Series as a saloon.

The Impreza matches common C-segment dimensions other than total length, which is on the long side (but still shorter than D-segment saloons). It's also Subaru's smallest TCR eligible car with regards to dimensions/door count, so I think it can be excused for being a tad long.

[Mark0994]

I think that its not specified that they are only for C-segment cars
In BTCC we have BMW 1 vs VW CC. And CC is 50cm longer than 1 Series
I would like BMW 3 more then BMW 1. Also with BOP big sedans like BMW 3, Jaguar XF, Merc C-Class wouldn't have advantage over hatchbacks.

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by Beryl

The TCR category is explicitly a class for C-segment cars and it would be nonsensical to allow a D-segment car when a C-segment alternative is available.

This is not correct. Before TCR started, Lotti published a wide list of cars, that are eligible. Most of them were taken out of the c-segment, but it included the Mercedes CLA, which is widely considered a compact executive car, which is part of the d-segment. Just like the BMW F30. And yes, Mercedes has smaller fitting models.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_executive_car

And this is from an interview with Lotti from 2014:

Q: What is the idea behind the TC3?
ML: "There is a strong demand for competitive cars that can be purchased and run at reasonable costs."

Q: What sort of cars are we talking about?
ML: "There is one car that already meets all criteria I’ve mentioned: the single-make trophy SEAT León. It has already proved to be the perfect customer racing car, launching a number of young drivers to successful careers in national, regional and even world championships. A number of manufacturers have cars that are potentially eligible for TC3; to mention only a few others, there are Alfa Romeo Giulietta Quadrifoglio Verde, Ford Focus RS, Honda Civic Type-R, Mercedes CLA 45 AMG, Opel Astra OPC and the Volkswagen Golf GTi. All these models are, by their very nature, suitable to answer the need."

And from the official TCR ruleset:
Eligible cars Eligibility criteria for TCR Touring Car: - The model of car is on the list of TCR eligible cars for 2016 published by the WSC (only front-wheel drive cars). WSC reserves the right to accept other cars, when the general characteristics match with the TCR concept. WSC reserves also the right to approve or to refuse applications which might not be in compliance with the above criteria.

So no RWD, unless they allow it. Reminds me of the NGTC...

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Fechna

This is not correct. Before TCR started, Lotti published a wide list of cars, that are eligible. Most of them were taken out of the c-segment, but it included the Mercedes CLA, which is widely considered a compact executive car, which is part of the d-segment. Just like the BMW F30. And yes, Mercedes has smaller fitting models.

The CLA isn't a D-segment car, the C-Class is. The CLA is part of a new niche between C and D, the A in the name tells its true nature though.

[thlbtcc]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

The CLA isn't a D-segment car, the C-Class is. The CLA is part of a new niche between C and D, the A in the name tells its true nature though.

Word.

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

The CLA isn't a D-segment car, the C-Class is. The CLA is part of a new niche between C and D, the A in the name tells its true nature though.

Well that's your opinion.

Every wiki page (english AND german) about small executive cars or the CLA says exactly and explicitly otherwise.
They all say lower scale of the D-segment or Mittelklasse.

The fact that it's FWD doesn't mean anything (Audi A4) or the fact that it shares components with smaller cars like the A and B class.

In fact it's even longer then the new BMW 3series. Or is that car also a compact?

[Bramzel]

Whatever floats your boat dude. TCR was presented with a clear list of targeted cars, if you honestly believe a 3-series fits that list better than a 1-series that says enough for me

[Fechna]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Whatever floats your boat dude. TCR was presented with a clear list of targeted cars, if you honestly believe a 3-series fits that list better than a 1-series that says enough for me

No boats, no options, just plain facts.No need to get huffy.

[Mark0994]

CLA is sporty A-Class it's all in name.
And i believe that BMW 3 would make more sense then BMW 1. Sedans are better than Hatchs for fast drive.

[FIRE]

Look to BTCC. Hatchbacks to big saloons.

[Tja]

Does it really matter in the end? If a manufacturer turned up with a saloon like the 3 series, I doubt Lotti would tell them to go away. It might look a little different if an independent tuner asked him though.

[FIRE]

No it doesn't matter however I can image a smaller car works beter than a bigger car.

[Bramzel]

Originally Posted by Tja

Does it really matter in the end? If a manufacturer turned up with a saloon like the 3 series, I doubt Lotti would tell them to go away. It might look a little different if an independent tuner asked him though.

Audi turned up with a TT though

[Tja]

Originally Posted by Bramzel

Eligibility criteria for TCR Touring Car:
- The model of car is produced by an OEM and belongs to a mass produced family.
- 4/5 doors
- Minimum length 4.2m

I'm just going to quote yourself here

I was talking about the C vs D segment discussion that's been going on. The regulations are based on the Seat Leon and all the others have followed witha similar-sized car so far. However there's nothing in the rules to stop anyone using a larger model nor do I think Lotti would tell a manufacturer to go away.

The TT doesn't meet the criteria mentioned above though, it's a 2 door roadster. Plus I'm not entirely sure Audi would really want it in the category either besides the temporary arrangement late last season.

[Bramzel]

I know, its a fair point you raise. Just wanted to point out Lotti bends but not all the way over