Running a touring car?

big fra · 29 Sep 2005, 14:47 (Ref:1420042)

Hi,
I am looking at buying a Cavalier touring car and replacing my cossi.I understand the question is a bit like how long is a piee of string but does anyone know the potential problem's i could face as most of the part's might not even be avaliable anymore and if thing's go bang i would imagine it wont be cheap!

Many thanks

big fra · 30 Sep 2005, 07:03 (Ref:1420598)

Hi,
I am looking at buying a Cavalier touring car and replacing my cossi.I understand the question is a bit like how long is a piece of string but does anyone know the potential problem's i could face as most of the part's might not even be avaliable anymore and if thing's go bang i would imagine it wont be cheap(Also whats likely to go bang

)

Many thanks

Fraser

**BertMk2** · 30 Sep 2005, 07:58 (Ref:1420639)

Have a word with hawkenr he's got a ST Cavalier (and Primera) so he should be able to tell you all the possible pitfalls. Good luck with the car, it's always good to see supertourers out on track

big fra · 30 Sep 2005, 08:24 (Ref:1420663)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Have a word with hawkenr he's got a ST Cavalier (and Primera) so he should be able to tell you all the possible pitfalls. Good luck with the car, it's always good to see supertourers out on track

Too be honest i have had a word with him and he was very helpfull(It's his old car im looking at

)I would just like some more opinions if possible

**BertMk2** · 30 Sep 2005, 08:37 (Ref:1420671)

Quote:

Originally Posted by big fra

Too be honest i have had a word with him and he was very helpfull(It's his old car im looking at

)I would just like some more opinions if possible

Well that's me pretty much out of ideas then! The only other person I can think with a ST Cavalier is Jim Pocklington (Anyone know if he's still got the car or how to contact him?)

JMeissner · 30 Sep 2005, 09:35 (Ref:1420702)

This is from the ST List thread which shoudl give you an idea:

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkenr

For instance moving the car around to take to scrutineering becomes a real ordeal. Reverse generally is EMERGENCY USE ONLY and very hard to engage and disengage, they have no fans so heat up really quickly, they have a very poor steering lock equivalent to that of a large tanker, they are extremely low only able to be lifted with airjacks (no good for grass), engines require pre-heating before starting requiring either hookup or generators and engines won’t start without hooking up a large well charged battery…..just for starters.

Tim Wilkinson · 30 Sep 2005, 14:05 (Ref:1420951)

Yes, Jim still has his tucked away, I don't have his number but you could try to contact him at his bodyshop?
His is circa 90/91, tho, so not quite as high tech. That's not to say it's simple to run, but a little nearer cossies than STs, I would imagine.

avro · 30 Sep 2005, 18:17 (Ref:1421138)

Super Tourers can be as economical to run as many saloon racers out there, especially the cossies.

big fra, send me a PM with your number or email as I might be able to help

Wilbo · 30 Sep 2005, 19:32 (Ref:1421186)

I have Jims number, will private mail you.

As far as I understand the car was mega, very reliable and was quick - in fact I believe it was better than the Vectra's. I know Jamie Wall and he rates them too.

Go on - you only live once (as far as I know!)

avro · 30 Sep 2005, 20:20 (Ref:1421227)

For your information Jims car is a 91 car and runs a dog box gearbox and not a sequential and is not as quick as the later 94 and 95 cavaliers, and most certainally any true BTCC Vectra, but is still a nice car.

Wilbo · 30 Sep 2005, 20:29 (Ref:1421229)

Sorry. My reference was to the last Cavaliers i.e the Cavalier Jamie ran in 97'.
I didn't though relise thatis Jims was that early so thanks for poiting this out.

Al Weyman · 2 Oct 2005, 08:34 (Ref:1421925)

Did'nt I read somewhere that you have something like 40k tied up in the transmission alone, sounds an expensive excercise to me.

JLD · 2 Oct 2005, 08:52 (Ref:1421929)

IMO the cost of parts would be a very big item on the list. I know that performance doesn't come cheap, but it could end up cheaper to use the car with a different (read cheaper) engine and transmission. Unless, of course, you have a recent lottery win

Al Weyman · 2 Oct 2005, 09:21 (Ref:1421936)

A guy called Andy Clarkin did that with an ex-Ian Khan Caverlier and entered it to race with us in the ModProd Saloons, I think he kept all the original parts though so it could be converted back, not 100% sure.

thatorangething · 2 Oct 2005, 19:19 (Ref:1422188)

Hi, Tony Ryan has to be a good place to start, he's pretty clued up about what's about in the market, trades as touringcarspares.com/.co.uk i think. Some of the touring cars must suit the private individual much more than others - for instance a genuine Cosworth sierra would be a whole lot easier than one of those mondeos that had a driveshaft running through the Vee! Anything that started life as a huge budget front wheel drive racer would have to be treated with extreme caution, were it not to end up a useless hull parked in the garage, demanding more bespoke parts than it's owner could afford - even to convert it to a more manageable drivetrain.

Al Weyman · 2 Oct 2005, 19:56 (Ref:1422220)

HiYa thatorangething, how is the IROC project going?

big fra · 2 Oct 2005, 21:42 (Ref:1422286)

Quote:

Originally Posted by avro

Super Tourers can be as economical to run as many saloon racers out there, especially the cossies.

big fra, send me a PM with your number or email as I might be able to help

PM Sent!

***Chris Y*** · 3 Oct 2005, 08:45 (Ref:1422551)

I've moved the thread to the Racers' forum, as it's probably more appropriate here

Tim Wilkinson · 3 Oct 2005, 12:31 (Ref:1422742)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

A guy called Andy Clarkin did that with an ex-Ian Khan Caverlier and entered it to race with us in the ModProd Saloons, I think he kept all the original parts though so it could be converted back, not 100% sure.

That might be Jim's Cavalier, he bought it from Andy a few years back iirc. That car has been messed about a lot - I've been told Vauxhall used it to experiment with RWD back in '90 or '91 but it never ran in anger.

andypipe · 4 Oct 2005, 11:20 (Ref:1423577)

Quote:

Originally Posted by teej

That might be Jim's Cavalier, he bought it from Andy a few years back iirc. That car has been messed about a lot - I've been told Vauxhall used it to experiment with RWD back in '90 or '91 but it never ran in anger.

If its a blue one then yes, it is Andy's old one. He used to get Geoff @ Empress Motorsport to run it for him. I think Geoff works @ Cambridge Motorsport now so might be able to help

R59 · 23 Oct 2005, 22:28 (Ref:1441610)

Yes, Geoff Denson is now at Cambridge Motorsport, Great Gransden, Cambs.

Rob.

PS: don't buy a super tourer, get a Thundersaloon with a BIG V8!!
They start on the button, cost pence to look after (except fuel and tyres).

thatorangething · 24 Oct 2005, 07:52 (Ref:1441822)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racing59

PS: don't buy a super tourer, get a Thundersaloon with a BIG V8!!
They start on the button, cost pence to look after (except fuel and tyres).

Would agree with that. Try costing out a nice race build on a small block chevy with a nice new transmission to match, that'll make you think! Having 92,000,000 of them out there makes quite a difference.
Regards
Peter

Al Weyman · 24 Oct 2005, 08:30 (Ref:1441847)

Yeah but even the fuel is not that much more Rob at the end of the day. I recon my latest incarnation although only an estimated mild 400bhp or so is doing 5mpg on the race track, I came back from Pembrey after a two day meeting with a full unopened Jerry can I was most pleasantly surprised. I know some of the higher tuned 170bhp CVH Fiestas probably only get 8mph on the track and they require a tear down every 3 or 4 meetings. I have just been to Tesco over the weekend got my 5p off vouchers and bought 45 litres of their 99 octane stuff for the Walter Hayes meeting and it worked out at 88p a litre so not the end of the world and that is for two races (plus the fuel I still have from Pembrey).

R59 · 29 Oct 2005, 12:17 (Ref:1446700)

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatorangething

Would agree with that. Try costing out a nice race build on a small block chevy with a nice new transmission to match, that'll make you think! Having 92,000,000 of them out there makes quite a difference.
Regards
Peter

That's why I bought a complete motor in from the 'states. I had to drop the comp ratio to work with our restrictive fuel regs (it ran on VP C12 over there), but all up, it stands me in at under 10K.

I costed a cosworth YB with 600bhp, and stopped counting at 18K, and rebuild every 3 races costing 8K a pop.

The guy I bought my 403ci all alloy chevy from, has been trying to tempt me with another motor he's got up for grabs - an all alloy 415ci lump, Brodix 12deg heads (oh yesss!), Brodix block, it's a Chevy, honest! $16500!!!

Something like that in the UK would relieve you of £30K.

Transmission - GM Muncie M22 Rock Crusher, direct top, 2.2:1 1st, straight cut, bomb proof - about $1600 100% brand new. Much less for s/h refurbished.

Touring Car - engine £22K (cheap version!), new Xtrac 6speed Super Touring gearbox £35K. Frightening.

As for fuel consumption - my 1600 Nova used to do 8mpg on the Micro Dynamics injection system, but since moving to DTA, it improved to about 12.
And a freshen every 16 races or so (new ends/mains perhaps!)

Rob.

Al Weyman · 29 Oct 2005, 13:56 (Ref:1446748)

I got the message about 15 years ago Rob! Way to go but hey don't tell everyone!

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
running on alcohol??	driftersx	Racing Technology	25	4 Sep 2005 21:01
The cost of running a 3rd car	Super Tourer	Formula One	23	1 Nov 2004 09:53
Audi running away	marcus	Sportscar & GT Racing	1	18 Jun 2000 05:49
My site is up and running	Mackmot	Cool Sites	4	24 Mar 2000 23:00