[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Exactly spot on.

And if they weren't doing it on lap time, they wouldn't have a target of 0.5 seconds a lap, and now a target of the same lap time. And if it was based on actual data then surely that data would've shown up at Spa and the Le Mans test. If they used data, there's no way the cars would've been pegged back further. The only way they could justify that is on pure speculation of the teams finding this mythical 2 seconds.

And let's be realistic here - the EoT is no longer about making sure the rule sets can produce the same results. The non-hybrid regs have been given a boost to make sure small budget teams can compete with a works team. If a manufacturer entered non-hybrid (we know it's not allowed but for the sake of discussion) then they'd win by miles with the boost that set of regs has.

EoT is now about letting David fight Goliath, not making sure David and Goliath have the same weapons.

--

On a different note, we won't find out the LMP2 Le Mans class winner (and therefore WEC standings) until September now. That's poor, no matter which way you look at it.

Were saying the same thing in that the target was to make them within half a second of each other. But supposedly, that wasn't the original basis for EOT and it's changes. They were supposed to use the potential of the powertrain like they did between diesel and petrol. But then they were also given some other breaks like the lower weight, wider wing and bigger fuel tank. I think it's still a work in progress but the EOT needs to stay as is and let the private teams gain on their own because the Toyota is staying still, at least technically.

[TzeiTzei]

BoP, EoT... whatever you want to call it. I think at this point the main objective for FIA-ACO is to offer us a race to watch. Spa and Le Mans weren't interesting at all in terms of what was happening at the front. And just like Silverstone, these are tracks which theoretically should suit the non-hybrids better. Le Mans has long straights were the top speed of the non-hybrids should have made them more competitive. Spa has long flatout sections and not that many hard braking zones. Silverstone is kind of similar and in the past has been problematic for the hybrids. And still the Toyotas were just waltzing in to the distance. Sure we don't know what is going to happen at Silverstone, but it could be the best chance the non-hybrids get this year. Fuji and Shanghai will definitely be hybrid territory.

People like to look at top speed and say that the non-hybrids have an advantage on the straights. But what we really should be looking at is the time it takes for the cars to travel that distance.

Spa sector 1:
SMP Dallara 327km/h, 33,3s
Toyota 314 km/h, 32,1s

That's one hairpin the rest is flat out. And it's a long straight where non-hybrids start to claw back the initial acceleration advantage that the Toyota has. But still over a second's advantage for Toyota.

Le Mans sector 2: three long straight cut by two chicanes.
Toyota 342 km/h, 1.15,0
SMP Dallara 339 km/h, 1.16,5

So the non-hybrids aren't really quicker on the straights. Actually they lose a lot of time on the straights. And they don't seem to be any quicker in the corners either. So where are they supposed to be gaining so that they could match the Toyota on lap time? I have no idea and I'm not sure the ACO have either. If it's even on their real agenda list.

Silverstone is a bit troublesome for hybrids, so that could the privateers' best chance. At tracks like Fuji and Shanghai the Toyotas are going to absolutely murder all the non-hybrids. They have so much more horsepower they can just slap all the downforce they want on the car and still be quick enough on the straights. You have to remember it's around 900bhp vs 700bhp. Sure Toyota won't have all that along the whole straight but halfway through they will be long gone. It wouldn't surprise me if they were gaining a second on every straight over the non-hybrids. I'm also a bit surprised this doens't pop up in the conversation more often.

I don't see these car racing each other much unless they slap a much lower power cap on the hybrid system. It's 300kW now, it needs to be closer to 100kW. Sure most of the privateers cars are still quite new they will improve, but not by the margin they would have to. I hope I'm wrong.

Well that was a bit of a rant. And we didn't even touch the impossible scenario of these cars racing wheel to wheel yet.

[MaskedRacer]

MTEK BMW should change of their cars to black livery as well like R.L.L did.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by MaskedRacer

MTEK BMW should change of their cars to black livery as well like R.L.L did.

It won't make them faster.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Juntos

It won't make them faster.

They weren't the laggards of the GTEPro field at Le Mans at all - as many thought they would be..... Just because a car is quite big doesn't mean its inevitably slow.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Just because a car is quite big doesn't mean its inevitably slow.

I agree with you here. Jens Marquardt is a motor sports engineer and he knows how to cry for a better BoP for his giant BMW. In "normal conditions" his car would be 'under-paced' but that is not what ACO wants for the Munich boys.

[Aysedasi]

Ah, but what goes around comes around with BOP...... One year it's Ford, then it's AMR, then Porsche or BMW. Must be Corvettes turn next year.... But then, probably not.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Juntos

I agree with you here. Jens Marquardt is a motor sports engineer and he knows how to cry for a better BoP for his giant BMW. In "normal conditions" his car would be 'under-paced' but that is not what ACO wants for the Munich boys.

Car was pretty heavy too. And it's in it's first year of competition. I think you underestimate the job they have to do in order to make a race car from scratch and be fast, regardless of bop.

[LMPFan]

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2018/0...ock-notes.html

[joeb]

On the subject of bop, sorry I mean eot, Toyota seems to be involved in helping the ACO/to make decisions.

From s365 Saturday notebook https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ay-notebook-8/

Vasselon said*the pre-event EoT changescame in an open dialogue with the governing bodies.*“We discussed and came to something, which in our and the ACO and the FIA’s opinion, makes sense,” he said. “It respects some principles and brings the field together.

“What was much more difficult before was the lack of data. Our concern was that the data was not good enough at the time and there was a risk of error. We had to protect ourselves. Now we have much more accurate data so it’s an easier job of what we want to achieve.”

Is this surprising to anyone else? I thought the rules makers made choices on their own to manage the competition?

[TF110]

Originally Posted by joeb

On the subject of bop, sorry I mean eot, Toyota seems to be involved in helping the ACO/to make decisions.

From s365 Saturday notebook https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ay-notebook-8/

Vasselon said*the pre-event EoT changescame in an open dialogue with the governing bodies.*“We discussed and came to something, which in our and the ACO and the FIA’s opinion, makes sense,” he said. “It respects some principles and brings the field together.

“What was much more difficult before was the lack of data. Our concern was that the data was not good enough at the time and there was a risk of error. We had to protect ourselves. Now we have much more accurate data so it’s an easier job of what we want to achieve.”

Is this surprising to anyone else? I thought the rules makers made choices on their own to manage the competition?

I read that too. I thought it was more about Toyota helping out in the eot because they know their own speed so maybe they give the ACO outlines on what would equal that speed if they were making a private teams' car? That was my take at least. I don't think it's that nefarious or that Toyota want an automatic advantage. The hybrid is already an advantage most of the time anyway.

I thought another thing was telling in that the eot helped non-turbo teams for this round. I figured that would help Rebellion out even more and they'd be clearly ahead of the other privateers, but it looks like the SMP team has starte to come on strong. It could also be because they have already tested the HD kit in the off-season while Rebellion's is sorta new.

[TzeiTzei]

They knew exactly how the non hybrids would perform.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Originally Posted by joeb

On the subject of bop, sorry I mean eot, Toyota seems to be involved in helping the ACO/to make decisions.

From s365 Saturday notebook https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...ay-notebook-8/

Vasselon said*the pre-event EoT changescame in an open dialogue with the governing bodies.*“We discussed and came to something, which in our and the ACO and the FIA’s opinion, makes sense,” he said. “It respects some principles and brings the field together.

“What was much more difficult before was the lack of data. Our concern was that the data was not good enough at the time and there was a risk of error. We had to protect ourselves. Now we have much more accurate data so it’s an easier job of what we want to achieve.”

Is this surprising to anyone else? I thought the rules makers made choices on their own to manage the competition?

This is not surprising, in fact it's been reported a long time ago that Toyota was one of the proponents of a new EoT for the privateers.

[Bentley03]

Dragonspeed announce revised LMP1 crew for Fuji - two quicks and no Hedman...

DSC link

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Good news, but Silverstone showed Hedman is not the only weak link in that team.

[Juntos]

Originally Posted by EffectiveSprinkles

Good news, but Silverstone showed Hedman is not the only weak link in that team.

Money can’t buy happiness, but it can buy you the kind of misery you prefer.

[chernaudi]

Toyota gain 26kg and lose guaranteed stint length advantage at Fuji:


https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...gth-advantage/

[EffectiveSprinkles]

Let's just do away with EoT and call it BoP now. It's clear they want to go that way anyway.

[Akrapovic]

I feel like a 26kg weight increase is more a case of "Well, it's the thought that counts", lol. It won't make a big difference at all. That's not even a BTCC weight penalty.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

I really don't know why they didn't just give them less fuel flow. That's not without precedent, every previous time the LMP1H cars were deemed 'too fast' they just lowered fuel flow allocation. And it's in keeping with the spirit of the class as well. This just feels, well, lazy like you said.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

I feel like a 26kg weight increase is more a case of "Well, it's the thought that counts", lol. It won't make a big difference at all. That's not even a BTCC weight penalty.

26kg on a BTCC car is only 2% and probably even helps weight distribution, on an LMP1 it's 3% and costs you some engine performance as well because of the loss of efficiency. The question is just whether the TS050 was running at minimum weight anyways.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

26kg on a BTCC car is only 2% and probably even helps weight distribution, on an LMP1 it's 3% and costs you some engine performance as well because of the loss of efficiency. The question is just whether the TS050 was running at minimum weight anyways.

It doesn't help the BTCC weight distribution. They use weight penalties of up to 75kg. Much much larger than WECs EoTBoP, with significantly smaller gaps between the cars.

This won't make any significant impact.

[TF110]

I think making a significant impact isn't on the agenda list. You don't just throw something like 50kg or a huge drop in fuel flow at Toyota as a knee-jerk reaction. You let it play out and make little changes here and there to see if that has an impact on them.

[Akrapovic]

If you're trying to balance cars that are wildly unbalanced, then you can't do it by adding grains of sand (there's a sand bagging joke in there somewhere )

Not that they should be balanced of course, but that's another discussion. That ships sailed.

[EffectiveSprinkles]

It evidently has not, since most of the silly regulations about stint length are now gone.