Nice shots of the Ex Group B Rallycross cars

Robin Plummer · 24 Feb 2003, 20:41 (Ref:516459)

Savour them you will miss them next year! This one shows the fact that the 6R4 engine is actually mounted offset to the left of the engine bay.

Robin Plummer · 24 Feb 2003, 20:42 (Ref:516462)

Pat Doran's lovley RS200E with it's clothes off! Thank god I took my camera.

Peter S · 24 Feb 2003, 21:22 (Ref:516489)

oh no, not more dinosour pictures. Where are the more modern Focus Wrc's? much nicer.

Unless you have an Arnesson Audi picture

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 21:48 (Ref:516520)

Oh well, here goes. I`ll try to keep within the rules and post with moderation (provided this works and I doubt it will!).

The old dinosaur (rather a timeless classic) leading one of the much nicer (rather dull and featureless!! - sorry Peter S!!) Ford Focuses (Foci?!) at Lydden last weekend.

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 21:51 (Ref:516529)

WOOHOO!!! Finally! Should`ve had the courage of my convictions ages ago and just ignored the "preview" option!

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 21:56 (Ref:516536)

And just for Peter S....

John Cross at same meeting.

Robin Plummer · 24 Feb 2003, 21:59 (Ref:516541)

A nice spread..

Robin Plummer · 24 Feb 2003, 22:00 (Ref:516543)

Elio when was that picture taken I notice the RS200 has differnt larger wheels? Was it a practice session?

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 22:11 (Ref:516564)

Robin - I was at the very same `89 Rallycross GP at Brands that you`ve put the scans of in the "How do you post images?" thread.

I don`t have time at the mo` but will search through my albums and negs in the next few days to see if I can find anything decent. My Dad was taking the pics then as I was only 12 (didn`t have that much confidence with an SLR!!)!

I first went in 88 and stayed loyal right to the end - including the European round in the Summer of 95 (I think?!).

I`m not a dedicated Rallycross fan - just Brands season ticket holder since the year dot and general 4-wheel motorsport follower. However I still fail to understand why Rallycross has never made it big. After going to Lydden last weekend (for my first Rallycross for about 6/7 years) and thinking back to the types of machines and quality of racing back in the late `80s/early `90s I personally think that if it was promoted correctly it could draw bigger crowds than F1. Easily. Its just the type of thing the paying spectator wants to see in return for his cash.

Robin Plummer · 24 Feb 2003, 22:13 (Ref:516567)

I totally agree and it only costs £6 to watch for the whole day!

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 22:14 (Ref:516570)

Robin - Last Saturday at the BARCs (poorly organised) Winter Rallycross meet (see other thread). More specifically - in the second qualifying run of the day.

Peter S · 24 Feb 2003, 22:17 (Ref:516575)

Cheers Elio, nice to be reminded we are living in modern times, not the past!

Wow nice new colour scheme for John Cross.

Dorans dinosour looks like it may be destined for a museam dressed up like that. With those wheels it looks a bit flash.

Are any of you guys going to be at Croft for the first round of the British champs?

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 22:24 (Ref:516586)

Unlikely that I`ll be able to coax my parents into going that far north! It doesn`t clash with anything else on my calendar but its a long haul for us southerners! Brands in November is a definate. Easter Lydden is a possibility - especially if Brands`s CART alterations end up killing-off the amateur photographer.

Peter S · 24 Feb 2003, 22:40 (Ref:516611)

I will be at Brands for the CART race.

The event not to miss this year will be the British rallycross grand prix at Croft.

The reason why rallycross has not made it big in england is simply down to the fact they have never followed the european rallycross regulations and england is therefore the only country in the whole of europe who do not run to the regs.

Elio · 24 Feb 2003, 22:55 (Ref:516630)

Just checked Croft`s website and I see it`s on 11/12 October. Just checked my own calendar and find I have nothing on that weekend! Im not sure if that`s a good thing or a bad thing!!

I must say its definately something that appeals. I saw some photos taken by someone that went last year and there did appear to be a really good foreign contingent - something that seemed to fall away in the final years of the Brands event. Some different shapes and sizes etc - I remember the odd Volvo , BMW, Saab, etc.

Follow this.....

http://www.ianhardy.net/gallery/croft002

Peter S · 24 Feb 2003, 23:58 (Ref:516702)

www.rallyracing.nl has photos of that as well....including every rallycross championship reports and results in existance.

Last year croft had Hansen, Hunsbedt, Eklund, Jernberg, Antonsson, Olsen and Nordgaard which provided top class entertainment. This year even more will be there.

Alos the supernationals come across to compete in the internations cup from norway and sweden. 300bhp 2wd Volvo s40s, bmw m3 etc......can beat it. MAy be around 8-10 teams this year. Lookign forward to it already.

Robin Plummer · 25 Feb 2003, 18:09 (Ref:517392)

Peter S are you on Comisson with rallyracing.nl you are allways plugging it!

Elio · 25 Feb 2003, 18:39 (Ref:517434)

I`m pretty much won-over now!! Just checked multimap and it comes out at a round 600 mile trip!! I think it may be a "go both days and stay in a hotel overnight" job. 600 miles in a day is a bit too much I think!

Stephen H · 25 Feb 2003, 18:53 (Ref:517450)

Croft from kent in a day is a bit too much, I tried it once, and gave up half way down the A1 on the way home. There are a few reasonable - costwise - hotels in the Darlinton area. And there is a travel lodge at Scotch Corner, just try to avoid a smoking room - they were supposed to air the room when I stayed, but didn`t as the windows wouldnt open.

Whats all this about it being the final year for the 6R4?
The beauty of the original RallyX GP at Brands, was that it allowed in any age of car, which is why there were NSU`s, 4WD beetles etc.

Having revived the Grand Prix, I hope Croft doesn`t lose sight of what the Grand Prix was. It would be a shame if it just turned into a "non-championship European round.

Peter S · 25 Feb 2003, 19:24 (Ref:517485)

Stephen, as the restrictor rules come into force next year with the weight limits in British rallycross, this brings Britains rallycross regulations nearly into line with europe in division 1. The only difference being that slick tyres will still be allowed with the odd older group b car. As for the grand prix then it is pretty obviuos that these regs will be adopted as if there are cars allowed to race with no restrictors then the europeans wont have a chance. Hansens car only generates 550 bhp ish compared to Dorans 750bhp+. Once they are underway the xsara is quicker, it is just off the line after 50mm were the extra bhp of the rs200 makes it impossible for a modern car to get to the first corner first. This is a good thing for british rallycross when the restrictors are adopted as more europeans will come across as they know they have a good chance of winning.

The grand prix died orginally because group b cars were allowed to compete so the europeans who came across got less and less and in the end didnt bother, which is why the event was moved to become the title of the european round at brands hatch in 1995 and lydden hill in 1996.

And it wouldnt be a bad thing if the Grand prix turned into a non championship european round, as i would prefare to see 20 European drivers apposed to rich old men driving group b cars, who would never be able to compete against the creme of europe.

Robin Plummer · 25 Feb 2003, 19:35 (Ref:517502)

One reason why I don't like the modern cars is that they are not mid engined and therfore don't handle as well as a true racer.

Elio · 25 Feb 2003, 20:01 (Ref:517534)

Hot off the film scanner.... A few photos dug out from the 1988 GP at Brands (can`t find any of the other negs at the moment!)

Anders Norstedt back in the pits immediately after that famous and well documented end-over-end down Tumbledown Hill (still visibly a bit shaken - but not as much as the car!).

Elio · 25 Feb 2003, 20:07 (Ref:517543)

And the start of one of the heats/finals (don`t know which specific race). I think I can just about work out John Welch, Dimi Mavropoulis and John Fernandez (at least I think that was his name) in the yellow and red 6R4. Just look at the crowd!! (I know ChampCar`s gonna be pretty damn good but I`d be surprised if it beats the crowd that was at this event).

Peter S · 25 Feb 2003, 20:08 (Ref:517544)

So a metro 6r4 driven by a rich old man who cant drive it at more than 50% is enjoyable to watch in your book. erm....ok.

Rallycross is a sport not a historic car racing meeting. That is what the classic car races are for.

In fact in that case why not change the rules of the classic rallycross class from pre 1976 to pre 1987 cars so the ford rs200 and Metro 6r4's can compete in that class at the odd british rallycross round and the grand prix. That will satisfy the rich men out for a sunday afternoon drive as well.

Peter S · 25 Feb 2003, 20:11 (Ref:517552)

Elio, thats Steve Palmer in second as well

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