FIA/ACO to create universal GT class

[canaglia]

I'm fine for the separate bop, gt-open already proved that gt3 cars with spec michelin can be as fast as GTE.
A separate bop would let gtd-pro being in the same performance window of gte and gtd remain in the same actual performance window of gtd.
Or at least there won't be anymore atrocities like about 1400kg amg gt3

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by canaglia

I'm fine for the separate bop, gt-open already proved that gt3 cars with spec michelin can be as fast as GTE.
A separate bop would let gtd-pro being in the same performance window of gte and gtd remain in the same actual performance window of gtd.
Or at least there won't be anymore atrocities like about 1400kg amg gt3

Same here. I will miss not seeing GTLM at Daytona and Sebring in 2022 because at Daytona, they could potentially have broken in to the 1 min 41 range. At Sebring this year they broke in to the 1 min 54 times. Both are lap times that enter DP range at Daytona and pre-2017 LMP2 range at Sebring. Can't wait to see what speeds GTLM can reach at VIR. Could break 1 min 40 barrier at VIR which would be incredible for a GT car. If so that would have been 3rd overall ahead all P2 and PC cars at the ALMS race in VIR in 2013 the last time prototypes ran there.

GTD Pro with good BoP might have a pole lap at Daytona of 1 min 44 I think. and 1 min 58 at Sebring I guess. On current GTD tires.

[WyldStallion]

Sounds like Lexus will have a new GT3 car coming soon as well. I hope its a redeisgn or something based off a different model. I would not put the current Lexus in the category of best looking nor best sounding GT cars right now. Always cheered for it though especially in GT World Challenge because it was different from the usual German or Itallian mark.

[WyldStallion]

Also I wish there was a better exclusive all-GT endurance race in the USA. I don't think the 8 hours of Indy cuts it right now. That one needs to be longer. The idae of the 24 hours of Sebring is good, lets see how the Creventic event goes in November. But yeah I'd like to see something that would bring in both top SRO teams, N'Ring, DTM and future IMSA GTD-pro teams together. And it cant' be Daytona 24 or Sebring 12 because LMDH is about to take the spotlight in those events. Any ideas?

[NaBUru38]

I have insisted on splitting Petit Le Mans into a prototype race and a GT race.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I have insisted on splitting Petit Le Mans into a prototype race and a GT race.

Now thats an idea. Could be practical as soon as the 2023 PLM. Especially if ACO introduces GT3 cars by then for the LM24.

More split proto and GT races could be possible with the larger grids by then too. And don't forget IMSA did that all the time during the GTP and Camel Lights days with the GTS/GTU classes. In fact Daytona and Sebring were the only raced all the classes ran together. Rest of season it was split. Nobody complained back then.

[Graham Goodwin]

Since a goodly proportion of the entertainment surrounds dealing with traffic, particularly as the classes are now closer together in performance, splitting the fields makes little or no sense

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Since a goodly proportion of the entertainment surrounds dealing with traffic, particularly as the classes are now closer together in performance, splitting the fields makes little or no sense

How dare you point out the obvious. This is the internet sir.

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

Now thats an idea. Could be practical as soon as the 2023 PLM. Especially if ACO introduces GT3 cars by then for the LM24.

More split proto and GT races could be possible with the larger grids by then too. And don't forget IMSA did that all the time during the GTP and Camel Lights days with the GTS/GTU classes. In fact Daytona and Sebring were the only raced all the classes ran together. Rest of season it was split. Nobody complained back then.

It doesn't matter what the ACO do, there's no GTLM next year so GT3 at LM is meaningless to Petit so it could be 2022 by that logic.

Oh, and the fact that 8 people show up for GT only races no matter how popular they are on the forum. If SRO could get 125k to show up for the 8 Hour of Indy they'd be jumping for joy but they don't. Same reasoning holds for why no one complained in the 80s, THEY SHOWED UP and there was nearly unlimited (if you didn't ask where it came from) money. And wait, checking IMSA history, yup that series failed spectacularly when the money dried up. Feel free to bring and spend your billions and we can have the GTP days again with more classes than ILMC/Sebring race.

[Pandamasque]

Might as well send the cars out for a 30-lap sprint one by one like a 10-hour rally

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Since a goodly proportion of the entertainment surrounds dealing with traffic, particularly as the classes are now closer together in performance, splitting the fields makes little or no sense

Entertainment to some, a higher budget for crash damage to others - and since IMSA is - let's face it - a largely customer driven series outside DPi/LMDh, all GT races could actually be attractive to those paying customers in GTD.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Since a goodly proportion of the entertainment surrounds dealing with traffic, particularly as the classes are now closer together in performance, splitting the fields makes little or no sense

I think that the splitting of the fields will depend on how successful LMDH is, if the LMDH of Audi, Porsche, Acura, Cadillac, BMW, Lambo get to be as popular as the GTP and the Porsche 962 , and if IMSA will finally allow Hypercars, which could also bring some Ferrari and Glickenhaus, maybe the splitting would be reasonable.
I remember grids of 80 or 90 cars in Daytona and Sebring in the 90's.

[Pandamasque]

OEMs are only going to pay for so much. The money to field the cars still has to come from somewhere. Will OEMs pay for 25 Hypercars and at least a dozen GTD-Pro cars? I very much doubt it.
This means that the increase in prototype numbers will likely drain money (and talent) from lower down the field, which most likely will result in a formula of Hypercar + a single Pro-Am GT class on both sides of the pond. Or a Hypercar + Pro-Am LMP (P3, most likely) + Pro-Am GT, if total numbers require it.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

I think that the splitting of the fields will depend on how successful LMDH is, if the LMDH of Audi, Porsche, Acura, Cadillac, BMW, Lambo get to be as popular as the GTP and the Porsche 962 , and if IMSA will finally allow Hypercars, which could also bring some Ferrari and Glickenhaus, maybe the splitting would be reasonable.
I remember grids of 80 or 90 cars in Daytona and Sebring in the 90's.

But for what purpose? We already have a GT only series running at some of the venues. You can't argue a split race would be sellable to pay drivers for the big races, would they really accept a Friday Daytona 24 of their own or want to run the main show? SO you would be then selling a lesser race with likely a Friday or early morning race so near zero chance of TV marketing and earlier than paddock visitors want to be there shaking hands and drinking free booze while networking. So what benefit would they get? It's not about if you think it's better as a race, it has to be profitable to the teams for the paying driver.

[hondafan37]

Originally Posted by broadrun96

But for what purpose? We already have a GT only series running at some of the venues. You can't argue a split race would be sellable to pay drivers for the big races, would they really accept a Friday Daytona 24 of their own or want to run the main show? SO you would be then selling a lesser race with likely a Friday or early morning race so near zero chance of TV marketing and earlier than paddock visitors want to be there shaking hands and drinking free booze while networking. So what benefit would they get? It's not about if you think it's better as a race, it has to be profitable to the teams for the paying driver.

It is true you are right, it is always better to race all the classes together.
I miss the 80 or 90 car grids at Daytona and Sebring.
I remember that many battles between the Porsche RS Spyder and the Audi R10 TDI were defined by traffic.
I just thought that if there are more than 25 or 30 LMDH/Hypercars, the classes could be splitting into the races of 2 hours 40 min.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by hondafan37

It is true you are right, it is always better to race all the classes together.
I miss the 80 or 90 car grids at Daytona and Sebring.
I remember that many battles between the Porsche RS Spyder and the Audi R10 TDI were defined by traffic.
I just thought that if there are more than 25 or 30 LMDH/Hypercars, the classes could be splitting into the races of 2 hours 40 min.

1. No way do I miss 80 car grids. Don't need it in 2021 anymore with the reliabiilty of the cars and the stubborness of IMSA to not utilize Code 60 type virtual safety car for debris and stalled car situations. I prefer 40-45 as long as they are Yellow happy. Larger grids can be possible if code 60 is utilized though.

2. You are right about the whole Petit Le mans split idea. Not realisitc probably but GTD Pro should get chances to headline. Hope ViR and Lime Rock remain all GT. I think Daytona Q-races should split too. "Motul Twin 125" sounds like a good roll of the tounge.

3. Yes on split races for shorter events. Especially if grid numbers for LMDH come through as promised. Can justify keeping LMP3 too that way.

[WyldStallion]

But lets be honest I think IMSA and WEC clearly are prioritzing DPI2 and Hypercars. They have plans for GT racing but it is not a priority. They will be treated as field fillers (especially WEC) by mid decade. The ones who give a darn about GT racing's future is SRO first and foremost but perhaps DTM and N24/NLS as well. I've always been one of the biggest fans for SRO racing out there, but I know their flaws too. SRO has the worst....And I mean...THE worst safety car procedure in sportscar racing. It has been THE major black eye on that series for years now.

[Bcarr6]

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

But lets be honest I think IMSA and WEC clearly are prioritzing DPI2 and Hypercars. They have plans for GT racing but it is not a priority. They will be treated as field fillers (especially WEC) by mid decade. The ones who give a darn about GT racing's future is SRO first and foremost but perhaps DTM and N24/NLS as well. I've always been one of the biggest fans for SRO racing out there, but I know their flaws too. SRO has the worst....And I mean...THE worst safety car procedure in sportscar racing. It has been THE major black eye on that series for years now.

I honestly don't think its a bad thing for WEC to prioritize protos, and SRO to be the GT guys. The less overlap between them, potentially the stronger grids each attract.

IMSA though, should really be a mix of both still, given the racing climate in the US

[tux]

Corvette GT3 in 2024?

Acura/Honda NSX will receive its second “evo” update next year similar to the Audi/Lamborghini.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by Bcarr6

I honestly don't think its a bad thing for WEC to prioritize protos, and SRO to be the GT guys. The less overlap between them, potentially the stronger grids each attract.

IMSA though, should really be a mix of both still, given the racing climate in the US

Yes to all 3. But for IMSA to keep that mix, they can't be treating GT classes as 2nd class citizens. I think Scott Atherton knew that and under his leadership they were treated as equals in many ways. I wonder if under John Doonan though GT is being treated as more of an afterthought.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by WyldStallion

Yes to all 3. But for IMSA to keep that mix, they can't be treating GT classes as 2nd class citizens. I think Scott Atherton knew that and under his leadership they were treated as equals in many ways. I wonder if under John Doonan though GT is being treated as more of an afterthought.

What makes you think Doonan is not caring about GT? The GTE class has collapsed on its on, IMSA had nothing to do with it.

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by tux

Corvette GT3 in 2024?

Acura/Honda NSX will receive its second “evo” update next year similar to the Audi/Lamborghini.

Excellent!!!!!

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by joeb

What makes you think Doonan is not caring about GT? The GTE class has collapsed on its on, IMSA had nothing to do with it.

Its just the vibes I get listening to him. I just don't think Doonan priortizes GT as much as Atherton. Its on his radar less essentially.

[tux]

So i guess the big question now is how similar to GT3 rules will this new GT class be? Will they be identical in specification to GT3 cars that run in IMSA, GTWC, ADAC, British GT etc or will they be modified in some way?

Personally i hope they dont modify the cars, just keep them the same as they'd run anywhere else. Of course, BOP is going to be a nightmare imo.

[WyldStallion]

Originally Posted by tux

So i guess the big question now is how similar to GT3 rules will this new GT class be? Will they be identical in specification to GT3 cars that run in IMSA, GTWC, ADAC, British GT etc or will they be modified in some way?

Personally i hope they dont modify the cars, just keep them the same as they'd run anywhere else. Of course, BOP is going to be a nightmare imo.

Indeed, DTM was smart to keep it that way. Same for IMSA with GTD Pro. I guess if anybody will be rogue it will be the ACO. But from 2024 and on..is GT at Le Mans that important anymore? Maybe not.

[broadrun96]

We get it, you want everyone to agree with you but it appears few do and zero will actually pay so for the love of all that is holy, GIVE IT A REST.

Obviously GT3 works or there wouldn't be multiple series using it. Adding extra crap just to pretend to be "better" and increasing the costs to run seems like the dumbest possible idea. Basically recreating GTE that no one wants any longer other than Corvette so they don't need to make cars. Cause I haven't seen a fully new GTE enter the field since I guess Ford and that went well.