[WEC] New rules. New manufacturers. The 2021 and beyond positivity thread!

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by joeb

In some earlier stories they had mentioned full duel programs, just like Ganassi did with the Ford GT.

2 or 3 weeks ago I read about doube full season WEC and IMSA, with WEC program made by a ganassi+dallara joint effort, similiar to what was WEC ford gt program with multimatic tasked of WEC program despite running under ganassi UK team name. Anyway if they will change engine, I think the most logical choice would be the 3.6L V6 turbo used in the cadillac gt3, unless they will are going to do a bespoke engine, which I think could be a gray zone of regulamentation as happens now with AER engine of mazda dpi that basically shares almost nothing with the original street derivated mzr design.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

I think they ran one in the 2000 race. I have a vague memory of it catching fire after a few laps.

I believe a forum member bought that car, but haven't seen any updates for 4 years on his car in his office

https://tentenths.com/forum/showthre...t=cadillac+lmp

[Pandamasque]

Do DPi regulations actually require a production-based engine or just an engine by the OEM brand? Do we know the rule is unchanged for LMDh?

Originally Posted by Coach Ep

Or maybe 3 entries requests will be filed, who knows at this stage, it's really early days when it comes to the 2023 entry list. Guessing 62 entries again, when is the new pit building planned to be built? And what was WEC's self-imposed entry limit again?

I don't expect ACO turning down any legit LMDh entries in 2023 as not that many privateers will be able to get hold of LMDh chassis yet. The factor limiting (or not) Cadillac's presence at Le Mans will be budget.

[veeten]

Answer to the first question, simply go to IMSA's website and click on the Technical regulations under engines and you will find your answer.
I am used to this, as most others are. It's called research.

[Adam43]

This is a discussion forum, most people are just having a discussion. No need for that.

/mod

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by veeten

Answer to the first question, simply go to IMSA's website and click on the Technical regulations under engines and you will find your answer.
I am used to this, as most others are. It's called research.

Done. DPi regulations do not even mention the word "production" in relation to engines.
https://www.imsa.com/wp-content/uplo...E-04232021.pdf

Hence the whole discussion is academic.

PS: a simple "No" answer would suffice though. Finding regs on the IMSA site required navigating through a maze of poorly worded submenus within submenus.

[Simmi]

Far be it from me to put a downer on the positivity thread - but interesting to hear GG on TWISC say a couple of times - "there will be programmes that we think today are happening that will not happen."

He did caveat that with saying that on the flipside there will be others we don't know about that will happen.

But would be interesting to know what has possibly hit the rails. Maybe certain programmes will begin to be talked about less?

[Simmi]

Okay - didn't take long to find out one such piece of news.

No Audi works programme in IMSA. WEC remains, as does the chance of customer team(s) in IMSA. To be honest I'd thought it was going to be customer-focused racing anyway.

https://racer.com/2021/08/30/audi-dr...-lmdh-program/

[chernaudi]

Audi Sport have allegedly signed Fillipe Nasr for the WEC/LM programs per Pruett's article at Racer.


Though Marshall didn't go into details, he does seem to suspect that there's still a schism when it comes to funding for regional programs between Audi AG/Audi Sport in Germany and Audi of America when it comes to IMSA programs. Such a thing basically killed Audi's ALMS program as a full time effort after 2008.


However, as pointed out, this applies to IMSA and not the WEC/LM24, which is still confirmed. Does make me wonder that if Audi Sport gets a customer team or two in IMSA if they'll do LM, though.

[chernaudi]

On a related thought, does anyone see Toyota expanding their LMH program beyond the WEC since LMH cars will be legal to run in IMSA beyond 2022? My opinion is that'll only happen, one, as a full privateer effort (upon Toyota or someone else paying the $1 million USD marketing fee (or bribe as others have called it)), two, if Toyota are allowed to rebrand the GR010 as a Lexus, or if TRD USA adopt the Gazoo Racing brand as part of their identity or Toyota Motor Corporation/Toyota Racing worldwide adopt the Gazoo Racing branding, which in NA to an extent already is happening with the GR Supra being sold in NA and the GR Supra GT4 running in the IMSA Michelin Challenge series and NA SRO racing.

[canaglia]

I don't think toyota will ever let anyone but TMG to use gr010... there is too much confidential technology in the hybrid system that I don't think toyota is going to share with anyone else.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

Audi Sport have allegedly signed Fillipe Nasr for the WEC/LM programs per Pruett's article at Racer.


Though Marshall didn't go into details, he does seem to suspect that there's still a schism when it comes to funding for regional programs between Audi AG/Audi Sport in Germany and Audi of America when it comes to IMSA programs. Such a thing basically killed Audi's ALMS program as a full time effort after 2008.


However, as pointed out, this applies to IMSA and not the WEC/LM24, which is still confirmed. Does make me wonder that if Audi Sport gets a customer team or two in IMSA if they'll do LM, though.

Quite disappointing if audi AG can't find some budget to give to audi of america, considering how cheap a lmdh program should be compared to LMH. Most of all if it's a regional championship like IMSA without intercontinental travels.

[Pandamasque]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

On a related thought, does anyone see Toyota expanding their LMH program beyond the WEC since LMH cars will be legal to run in IMSA beyond 2022? My opinion is that'll only happen, one, as a full privateer effort (upon Toyota or someone else paying the $1 million USD marketing fee (or bribe as others have called it)), two, if Toyota are allowed to rebrand the GR010 as a Lexus, or if TRD USA adopt the Gazoo Racing brand as part of their identity or Toyota Motor Corporation/Toyota Racing worldwide adopt the Gazoo Racing branding, which in NA to an extent already is happening with the GR Supra being sold in NA and the GR Supra GT4 running in the IMSA Michelin Challenge series and NA SRO racing.

Originally Posted by canaglia

I don't think toyota will ever let anyone but TMG to use gr010... there is too much confidential technology in the hybrid system that I don't think toyota is going to share with anyone else.

Regarding customer Toyotas, Vasselon recently said something to the tune of, "we're looking at the possibility of customers cars, but not as many customer cars as some other manufacturers are planning to have". This is not verbatim, but very close. He didn't mention whether this was about WEC or IMSA.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Simmi

Okay - didn't take long to find out one such piece of news.

No Audi works programme in IMSA. WEC remains, as does the chance of customer team(s) in IMSA. To be honest I'd thought it was going to be customer-focused racing anyway.

https://racer.com/2021/08/30/audi-dr...-lmdh-program/

Reading between the lines - I see it, like you, that maybe they are leaving IMSA to the privateer entrants which begs the question as to who may have invested enough in a programme to make Audi come to this decision?

Customer racing is surely the big attractions for the Manufacturers will be customer racing as it makes it a potential profit centre - or at least reduces the nett costs

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Mal

Reading between the lines - I see it, like you, that maybe they are leaving IMSA to the privateer entrants which begs the question as to who may have invested enough in a programme to make Audi come to this decision?

Customer racing is surely the big attractions for the Manufacturers will be customer racing as it makes it a potential profit centre - or at least reduces the nett costs

I think that manufacturers have more this kind of philosophy about customer racing: private teams pay to race, if they win... we share the glory.

[Pandamasque]

But if they fail miserably...
There's a reason why OEMs prefer to control as much as possible. Beyond club level racing you can no longer build up a production car into a race car and race it without the OEM's blessing. The more exposure the series/class gets, the less OEMs will want to leave in the hands of privateers. This is why every LMDh manufacturer so far seem to have at least one works team and why I expect private teams to be vetted, especially in WEC.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

But if they fail miserably...
There's a reason why OEMs prefer to control as much as possible. Beyond club level racing you can no longer build up a production car into a race car and race it without the OEM's blessing. The more exposure the series/class gets, the less OEMs will want to leave in the hands of privateers. This is why every LMDh manufacturer so far seem to have at least one works team and why I expect private teams to be vetted, especially in WEC.

if they fail, shame on private team...
OEM prefer to control as much as possible only when involved as full work team. I'll give you quick examples of my statement:
Joest won LM in 1996 and 1997 with a modified twr xjr-14 without roof powered by an old 962 derivated engine, joest was some kind of plan B for porsche since the work team was involved in GT1 with the new 911 gt1 (at least for 1996 if memory helps me).
Joest won both races, Porsche shared the glory adding those Joest victory in their LM palmares despite they officially ran against in 1996 .
Same about F333 that won at daytona, ferrari shared the glory despite their close to 0 effort.

[Pandamasque]

Did you notice how all of your examples are from 20+ years ago?

Nowadays, no money in the world will let you enter a privately developed AMG One LMH at Le Mans, unless you have a deal with Mercedes at a corporate level first. Because if the thing takes off into the French countryside again, it's Mercedes that will be in the news.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Pandamasque

Did you notice how all of your examples are from 20+ years ago?

Nowadays, no money in the world will let you enter a privately developed AMG One LMH at Le Mans, unless you have a deal with Mercedes at a corporate level first. Because if the thing takes off into the French countryside again, it's Mercedes that will be in the news.

luckly or unluckly some motorsport strategies tend to don't change across the time, change only circumstances.
Anyway speaking about audi, I just think audi was looking for a big USA private team willing to partially fund the IMSA program with own budget, something similiar to what was WRT some seasons ago, racing costs and managment up to the team, cars and drivers up to audi or maybe who knows how things really went
hope audi would find some extra cash to take part to 2023 daytona 24H with the WEC team at least.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by canaglia

luckly or unluckly some motorsport strategies tend to don't change across the time, change only circumstances.
Anyway speaking about audi, I just think audi was looking for a big USA private team willing to partially fund the IMSA program with own budget, something similiar to what was WRT some seasons ago, racing costs and managment up to the team, cars and drivers up to audi or maybe who knows how things really went
hope audi would find some extra cash to take part to 2023 daytona 24H with the WEC team at least.

Nope - take a listen to this week's #TWISC podcast where Marshall Pruett lays the whole story out there

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Nope - take a listen to this week's #TWISC podcast where Marshall Pruett lays the whole story out there

thanks, I'll listen it asap.
Update: I see, it's just what I've read here some days ago then... basically...

audi AG: hi
audi america: hi, will you give me the budget for a 2 cars IMSA work program?
audi AG: no no no no
audi america: and what about 1 car IMSA work program?
audi AG: no no no no
audi america: what? are you going to drop IMSA work program?
audi AG: yes yes yes yes

[chernaudi]

Originally Posted by Graham Goodwin

Nope - take a listen to this week's #TWISC podcast where Marshall Pruett lays the whole story out there

In other words, Marshall basically confirms what I posted here, what others have posted on other social media, and what Marshall himself hinted at in the Racer article--that Audi of America were unwilling to pay for most of the costs of the program, and effectively killed it. In other words, post 2008 ALMS all over again.

[Simmi]

Antonio Giovinazzi for a Ferrari Hypercar seat. What do we think?

Rumours are he's losing his F1 drive. Would make a lot of sense. If a guy like Buemi can go on to become the most successful driver in the WEC era then there's no reason why Antonio couldn't have a great career in sportscars. He already has a small amount of experience across GT and P2.

[J Jay]

Seeing as the Ilott rumours have died down, Giovinazzi would only be more likely, if he wasn't in the mix already. Ferrari will need all the prototype experience it can get.

[Pandamasque]

Strangely enough, lately he's been performing as well as he ever did. Maybe they'll keep him after all. What I noticed a while ago is that Giovinazzi is distinctly above average in traffic and in battles. He has this thing where he strategically places the car better than others during starts and other non-standard situations, much like Alonso. And much unlike Verstappen (and so many others in single seaters currently). He'd actually be suited for multi-class racing. Another current F1 driver that would make a good sports car racer is Stroll.

And I'm sure there'll be rumours about Kimi. But I doubt he'd like sharing the car, having a compromise setup and all that. Didn't he have a test with Peugeot back in the day?