Tony Dron's article on historic drivers and BRDC in Octane

[simon drabble]

Tony Dron's column this month is asking whether drivers in historic series should be eligible for BRDC. Its an interesting point - whilst I know several cars sport BRDC badges as a form of homage to the revered club without the driver actually being a memebr the actual members who race in historics have earned their stripes in modern series (albeit possibly back in the 60's!).
There is apparently a debate within the members as to whether they should allow historic drivers to join. The obvious answer is clearly no as it is easy to shine amongst weekend warriors yet disappear against modern siblings (Edwin Jowsey is a good example).
However I wonder if the debate is more to do with the calibre of new members coming up through the ranks and more to the point the lack of attachment of these drivers. Even at the highest level the Buttons and Hamiltons of this world do not display their membership in the way that drivers as recently as Mansell and Hill did on their car or overalls.
As a club with an ever increasing average age they need to think about the future and how they ensure it still enjoys the patronage it currently has - so do they sell out and allow wealthy historic drivers in now or stick to their principles?
Personally I think they need to stick to their principle to retain credibility. Tony Dron seems unable to make a decision, interesting dilemma and certainly the last time they opened their doors to buy in member it all ended in tears when the paying incomers did not realize they only bought access to the clubhouse not the badge!

[zefarelly]

I'm a member of the HRDC, far superior, we can fearlessly take the **** at will.

[terence]

Don't see what the problem is,plenty of non racer types already enrolled,so what difference would it make. Especially if said historic drivers are wealthy enough to buy their way in,as indeed some already have.

[simon drabble]

I think members might disagree with your view Terry! For a youngster to come up through the ranks by the time he has done a season of F3 at international level (and be at a position where he is eligible for membership)
it is fair to say he (or more realistically bank of Dad) has invested £1 million in the sport as well as a lot of blood sweat and tears so to see a historic do a few races against weekend warriors and effectively get in the back door must be pretty galling.
To be fair to "non racers" like Marcus Pye and Murray Walker they have contributed a lot to the sport in other ways

[DAYTONASME]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

Tony Dron's column this month is asking whether drivers in historic series should be eligible for BRDC. Its an interesting point - whilst I know several cars sport BRDC badges as a form of homage to the revered club without the driver actually being a memebr the actual members who race in historics have earned their stripes in modern series (albeit possibly back in the 60's!).
There is apparently a debate within the members as to whether they should allow historic drivers to join. The obvious answer is clearly no as it is easy to shine amongst weekend warriors yet disappear against modern siblings (Edwin Jowsey is a good example).
However I wonder if the debate is more to do with the calibre of new members coming up through the ranks and more to the point the lack of attachment of these drivers. Even at the highest level the Buttons and Hamiltons of this world do not display their membership in the way that drivers as recently as Mansell and Hill did on their car or overalls.
As a club with an ever increasing average age they need to think about the future and how they ensure it still enjoys the patronage it currently has - so do they sell out and allow wealthy historic drivers in now or stick to their principles?
Personally I think they need to stick to their principle to retain credibility. Tony Dron seems unable to make a decision, interesting dilemma and certainly the last time they opened their doors to buy in member it all ended in tears when the paying incomers did not realize they only bought access to the clubhouse not the badge!

==========================

Amongst others, are not "historic" regulars, and highly successful drivers in their own right - Gary Pearson, Martin Stretton, Peter Hardman and Michael Schryver all BRDC members?

Ed

[simon drabble]

I think you will find that those in historics who are BRDC members did so in a modern series (albeit that it might have been some time ago) the article was discussing whether they change the rules to allow drivers to qualify for membership through their historic racing results alone.

[John Turner]

Simon, I have absolutely no problem with the above 4 drivers being BRDC members; all worthy in my opinion, but what exactly did they achieve in contemporary racing? I ask because I genuinely don't know but is finishing a few races, say midfield in a contemporary series any more worthy than winning some of the top historic races, often against stiff opposition. And the catch all 'Weekend Warriors' term is one I struggle with - define it - who fits the bill - you, James Wiseman, Mike Bell, Roger Wills, Stuart Tilley, Leo Voyazides, Jon Minshaw? Just a random selection but a big range in both ability, achievement and regularity of turnout! I think that there are just a few in historic racing who merit consideration for their racing achievements, contribution to motorsport and its history whether or not they have been successful elsewhere. Afterall historic racing is widespread and successful. And I'll also bet you that if you looked down the list of BRDC members you might just be asking 'who'? or 'why'? and maybe with good reason. Finally, I suggest that as a group BRDC is an aging one, so needs new blood, ideas and enthusiasm. I'm sure a few of our more illustrious historic racers can provide that.

[simon drabble]

John your last comment is exactly the dilemma I think they face. Do they stick to the original ethos of the club (and its entry criteria) and risk a club that becomes so exclusive that it disappears or do they open its doors to generally "good blokes" who dabble in the sport with varying degrees of success.

Weekend warrior is a very generic term and taking Jon Minshaw out of the list as I believe he earned his spurs in modern racing (and correct me if I am wrong but is a member) I would say we are all weekend warriors with the probable exception of Roger who has taken it to another level and is currently more focused on modern GT3.

As I singled out Edwin Jowsey earlier I will use him as the example (and this is no disrespect to him as I am certain he is more talented than I would ever be) but whilst he dominated FJ a few years ago he is a very much also ran in modern single seaters. That is the point, it is broadly easier to shine in historics when much of the field are old duffers like me having a bit of fun rather than against others trying to carve a career asyou would find in any modern series.

If you take this to a logical conclusion you could well find youngsters starting to use historics as an alternative career path and as has been seen in FJ it can change the dynamics - and not in a good way. Let the genuinely enthusiastic race historic carrs but dont let them kid themselves that they are truly gifted if they win.

This is possibly why BRDC members become so incensed when people pass themselves off as members by putting the badge on their cars. Membership should be a recognition that you have excelled in the sport.

[John Turner]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

John your last comment is exactly the dilemma I think they face. Do they stick to the original ethos of the club (and its entry criteria) and risk a club that becomes so exclusive that it disappears or do they open its doors to generally "good blokes" who dabble in the sport with varying degrees of success.

Well, I think that the time for that has past, as I suggest the true 'exclusivity' disappeared from the club some time ago. On the other hand, I agree that it should not create an open door policy for 'good blokes'. I just believe that each case should be dealt with on individual merits and I'd have thought that there were a few in historic racing that have won their spurs enough to gain entry.

Originally Posted by simon drabble

This is possibly why BRDC members become so incensed when people pass themselves off as members by putting the badge on their cars. Membership should be a recognition that you have excelled in the sport.

This is a different issue though isn't it? It's misrepresentation. Mind you if the owner of the car is member but occasionally puts in a driver who isn't, would we expect the badge to be constantly taken off and then replaced each time? How important is it in the affairs of the World?

[smokystove]

Seems to me that unfortunately for organizations like BRDC that the principles which it was founded on scarcely exist in modern motorsport.

With the current generation of drivers they can only really claim "promotion of the sport" solely based on birth records and his/her achievements.

With corporate allegiance (i.e. the enormous budget required to be a winning team) being the name of the game these days, I'd think you'd be hard pressed to find a young pro hotshot who would drive for say, Red Bull Racing based on patriotic principles the way drivers did for say BRM back in the old days.

Even if they did, anyway the company is actually Austrian!

Probably why they're forced to reassess who they consider to be promoters of "British racing heritage".

Otherwise they'd need to be content with soon becoming a club exclusively of retired drivers and circuit management. That's no small thing in and of itself however.

[john ruston]

It makes more sense financially for the club to include anyone who has been successful in any form of today's motorsport irrespective of it's level and importance.

The well healed lot do Historics and they would like a badge that would frank their lives as race drivers.

Looking at that latest list of newcomers and those who are on the waiting(begging) list it has already opened its door to the Historic Weekend Warrior class .

Best of luck to them.

No different from the bloke I met the other week who announced he was a member having done a few foreign races in a Lotus Eleven in 50's and hasn't been to a race meeting since.Thought it a good thing to be a member.

If this does happen perhaps they could take the Festival back,take Fitz on as a consultant(if he's not playing golf)and we could have two Top Historic Race Meetings a year.

Dreaming!

[simon drabble]

on a bit of a tangent one member (now sadly deceased) once told me there was a inverse correlation between the size of the members BRDC badge and his qualification for joining - clearly complete rubbish but it always amuses me when I see a race car with an oversized members badge.

[terence]

Originally Posted by john ruston

It makes more sense financially for the club to include anyone who has been successful in any form of today's motorsport irrespective of it's level and importance.

The well healed lot do Historics and they would like a badge that would frank their lives as race drivers.

Looking at that latest list of newcomers and those who are on the waiting(begging) list it has already opened its door to the Historic Weekend Warrior class .

Best of luck to them.

No different from the bloke I met the other week who announced he was a member having done a few foreign races in a Lotus Eleven in 50's and hasn't been to a race meeting since.Thought it a good thing to be a member.

If this does happen perhaps they could take the Festival back,take Fitz on as a consultant(if he's not playing golf)and we could have two Top Historic Race Meetings a year.

Dreaming!

Nothing wrong in that John,perhaps the second one would ban the specials? Like you said,dreaming again!

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by simon drabble

on a bit of a tangent one member (now sadly deceased) once told me there was a inverse correlation between the size of the members BRDC badge and his qualification for joining - clearly complete rubbish but it always amuses me when I see a race car with an oversized members badge.

This sounds very much like a Don Trumanism, but then I could be wrong. There's no need to confirm or deny Simon, I'm just speculating (and putting 2 & 2 together and probably making 18...)

[Giraffe138]

Either way, it remains quite a challenge to get yourself a full membership of the club as you need to be both proposed and seconded by full members, and then be able to demonstrate to the committee that you have a respectable record of achievement in competition.
As far as associate membership goes, the club only elects one new member a year. I know one lapsed member who used to sponsor & run the new Chairman of the club during his competition career and is trying to renew his membership. It really all depends how long he or the others in the 20 strong waiting list live as to whether he manages to achieve his objective.

[SAMD]

Can an associate membership for historic racing not be used?

[simon drabble]

woudl they be allowed to wear the badge? I am led to believe that was teh stumbling block the last time they opened their doors...

[zefarelly]

John, would that be Mr A from Hove? I spoke to him a few weeks back, has been a life memmber for far longer than I've been alive, which is well after he retired, and struck me he's probably done less racing than me!

[terence]

Had a conversation with a very well known historic racer,he said that he hoped one day to be invited to become a member,just so he could tell them where to shove it!Seems to me that over recent years it has gone down hill rather rapidly,the true spirit of being a member has, sadly,been lost,according to various members.

[john ruston]

Says more about that particular Historic Racer than BRDC.

Must be a jerk!

[terence]

Perhaps,but one without the 'Head-in-the-clouds' syndrome,quite a refreshing bloke to talk to.

[Heightswitch]

My comments here are basically as a nobody, A Punter if you like but...

To me these sort of clubs are akin to the "oscars" Over time It becomes a bunch of Luvvy types, Many of whom get well paid all in their own world nominating themselves for a self perpetuating sort of self gratification !! Now this might sound harsh and I am playing devils advocate here but This sort of club generally becomes defunct over time because of "cliques" if you like being unable to move with the times.

I don't do celebrity.

But then again how many celebrities are needed to assess whether anyone racing in whatever discipline is worthy or not? popularity? race results? Differing disciplines?

Now whilst It is nice to be in some ways regarded by your Peers, in other ways it just panders to racing drivers already often over inflated ego's of themselves.

The old dinner party joke always comes to mind..."How can you identify a racing driver at a party?"....Don't worry he will tell you!!

N.

[Giraffe138]

Just to illustrate that the club is not too particular who it let's in it's doors these days, pictured here is a friend of Bruce McLaren from his youth, one of his ex-mechanics who is a recent Vice_President of the club and Giraffe after a splendid luncheon there today....

By giraffe138 at 2011-10-09

[rogerwills]

The requirements for membership are clearly laid out.

"Membership of the British Racing Drivers’ Club is highly sought after and offered only to those who have achieved success at the highest levels of motor sport."

http://www.brdc.co.uk/Membership

[john ruston]

Most members have spent a shed load of their own money racing and becomming a member has always illustrated that the driver has been successful.

There are very few professional drivers.

Like the bit about how do you know who is racing driver though.