F1 announces fastest driver since, erm, 1983.

[Knowlesy]

AWS and F1 have teamed up for some no doubt flawless analysis and here is their top ten:

In celebration of F1’s 70th anniversary an effort has been made in conjunction with Amazon Web Services using machine learning technology “to provide an objective, data-driven ranking of all drivers from 1983 through present day, by removing the F1 car differential from the equation”.

It appears to be largely based on qualifying performance versus teammates, hence some interesting entries.

It is a good laugh if nothing else.

[wolfhound]

What no French man with a crooked nose?????
and about the only Finn to not win the world championship that is currently not racing!!!!!!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

What no French man with a crooked nose?????

If it's largely based on qualifying performance against team mates, then no.....

[Theunser]

I think the computer who did this probably thinks 2+2=5

[Akrapovic]

Was looking at this this morning, trying to work it out.

It is indeed qualifying only, and it is mostly based on a team mate comparison. Once you know that, you can explain some stuff easily (it's still wrong)

Top 5, we'll just ignore because it makes sense.

Nico Rosberg was team mate to Michael Schumacher. Schumacher was largely off the ball come his Mercedes years, so Rosberg gets some stats for that. And then he was teamed with Lewis, and whilst Lewis was faster, Rosberg wasn't that far off, so he gets some for that. The stats have no concept of Schumacher having good or bad years.

Vettel gets his for the massive gap he had to Webber. That gap was massive and such an anomaly that that's all it needs for him to go into the top 10. This also explains Leclerc - Vettel is rated stupidly high due to destroy Webber. Leclerc is now beating Vettel, therefore Leclerc is better. Again, the data has no concept of the good and bad years Vettel has.

Heikki teamed with Lewis, so he gets stats for not being terrible. He then teamed with drivers he largely beat, so no matter how bad they are, he gets stats for that. Trulli is similar - he's good, but being near Fernando sometimes threw his numbers up.

Basically, the system rates any driver high who managed to even get close to one of the greats in qualifying (Heikki and Rosberg) and then those drivers tend to have worse team mates when they were at other teams, so points for that too.

This is the motorsport equivalent of Villa beat Arsenal, Arsenal beat Man City, Man City beat Liverpool, so Villa are better than Liverpool. It doesn't take into account form over careers, which is why the 6-9 looks unreasonable. And Vettel in 10 is unreasonable as the gap to Webber is something we haven't really seen at any other point in history.

[Aysedasi]

'...using machine learning technology “to provide an objective, data-driven ranking of all drivers from 1983 through present day, by removing the F1 car differential from the equation”.

After reading that, you wouldn't even need to see the stats it produces to know just how daft it was going to be.... (in the latter part of the table, anyway).

[S griffin]

It’s funny 1983 is also when the overtaking stats go back to. Wonder why stats like these don’t go back any further?

[Knowlesy]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Was looking at this this morning, trying to work it out.

It is indeed qualifying only, and it is mostly based on a team mate comparison. Once you know that, you can explain some stuff easily (it's still wrong)

Top 5, we'll just ignore because it makes sense.

Nico Rosberg was team mate to Michael Schumacher. Schumacher was largely off the ball come his Mercedes years, so Rosberg gets some stats for that. And then he was teamed with Lewis, and whilst Lewis was faster, Rosberg wasn't that far off, so he gets some for that. The stats have no concept of Schumacher having good or bad years.

Vettel gets his for the massive gap he had to Webber. That gap was massive and such an anomaly that that's all it needs for him to go into the top 10. This also explains Leclerc - Vettel is rated stupidly high due to destroy Webber. Leclerc is now beating Vettel, therefore Leclerc is better. Again, the data has no concept of the good and bad years Vettel has.

Heikki teamed with Lewis, so he gets stats for not being terrible. He then teamed with drivers he largely beat, so no matter how bad they are, he gets stats for that. Trulli is similar - he's good, but being near Fernando sometimes threw his numbers up.

Basically, the system rates any driver high who managed to even get close to one of the greats in qualifying (Heikki and Rosberg) and then those drivers tend to have worse team mates when they were at other teams, so points for that too.

This is the motorsport equivalent of Villa beat Arsenal, Arsenal beat Man City, Man City beat Liverpool, so Villa are better than Liverpool. It doesn't take into account form over careers, which is why the 6-9 looks unreasonable. And Vettel in 10 is unreasonable as the gap to Webber is something we haven't really seen at any other point in history.

It did nail one thing though, Fisi was quicker (and let's face it, better) than Prost.

The stats and the evidence before our eyes lies to us.

[Adam43]

Nico and Hamilton were pretty close in qualifying. Hamilton pipping Nico 42-36 apparently. Helps with the above presumably.

[Knowlesy]

Rosberg was a very handy qualifier. Probably slightly better than Bottas actually.

Though his stats are padded a bit by unreliability.

[S griffin]

Yeah, Nico could occasionally pull a quick one out of the bag

[Armco Bender]

It’s funny 1983 is also when the overtaking stats go back to.

Has there been an overtake in F1 since 1983?.

[S griffin]

According to the stats there has been overtaking

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/12...taking-records

[Aysedasi]

And when did DRS come in......? Presumably artificial overtakes are counted......

[crmalcolm]

The stats do show up another feature. When teams are 'dominant', their drivers do not appear on the charts. This would be down to starting the race close to the front of the field, and therefore not having to overtake many cars.

Vettel jumps out to me for his 2012 record.
Putting aside the DRS/non-assisted passes - this seems contrary to those who say the Vettel's titles were boring because he was out front all of the time. Hamilton took 7 poles in 2012, suggesting that the McLaren/Hamilton combination was the quickest car over a 1-lap pace. But in race trim, the Vettel/Red Bull combination was a stronger package.

[S griffin]

2012 was one of those seasons where you had a good mix of cars at the front, unlike recent seasons. Let’s not forget we had 7 different winners from the first 7 races and we had 13 different drivers on the podium in 7 different cars. One of the most open seasons, with performance of cars changing race by race. Perez in a Sauber getting on the podium 3 times that season is one of my abiding memories. We could do with a season like that.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And when did DRS come in......? Presumably artificial overtakes are counted......

and I guess also 'pit-lane' (ie undercut/overcut) passes.

[S griffin]

No, only overtakes on track are included

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by E.B

and I guess also 'pit-lane' (ie undercut/overcut) passes.

Yeah, I wouldn't count those anyway. That side of F1 bores me to tears....

[chunterer]

George Russell must be on there if it's stats based on qualy performances!!

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by chunterer

George Russell must be on there if it's stats based on qualy performances!!

Kubica was 18th on the full list so surely Russell's worth went up because his team mate was ranked so highly.

but surprised by Sainz at 14 and Norris at 15...which team mates did Sainz get compared to and did that move Norris, with a similar sample size as Russell, up?

its a confusing list.

[Knowlesy]

It is best not to think too hard about how the list has been compiled.

Just point and laugh.

[steve_r]

Yes, it's a meaningless list. No one should be offended if they don't agree with all it says - and let's face, who does agree?

Trulli was a qualifying master, but who can forget the "Trulli Trains" in the races.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

It is best not to think too hard about how the list has been compiled.

Just point and laugh.

no no...dont laugh at the thinking machines.

[S griffin]

It’s the fastest drivers technically, no need to read too much into it.