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Old 6 Apr 2017, 06:35 (Ref:3724077)   #226
VXDave
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VXDave should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
What is surprising is that in the S2000 days, the BMWs had to run 40kg (IIRC) heavier than FWD cars, if they used the sequential 'box (again, IIRC).

It does seem strange that a weight penalty for RWD wasn't implemented in the rules for NGTC from the outset (or at least when the rules were altered to accommodate RWD).

I wouldn't say that the RWD cars have a massive advantage, but they get an almost guaranteed benefit of being able to jump one or two (or more) cars off the line, which kind of undoes the point of qualifying to some extent. From that point, if a BM has jumped you, even though they take longer to get their tyres up to temp, it's far more difficult to pass them on the first few laps than it is for a BM to simply jump you off the line.

That said, having a mix of drives on the grid is more interesting than having it all the same, and the racing at the weekend was superb. BMs have traditionally gone well at Brands; I think some of the longer wheel base cars with the more slippery bodies will be the ones to beat at Donnington. It's set to be a fascinating season!

Also - a shout out to Senna Proctor... he may be a rookie, but three finishes in his first meeting including one points finish was a really good showing.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 08:18 (Ref:3724100)   #227
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Also - a shout out to Senna Proctor... he may be a rookie, but three finishes in his first meeting including one points finish was a really good showing.
Yup, a great debut with strong pace. I was pleasantly surprised.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 08:21 (Ref:3724102)   #228
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^ This
Although not necessarily to BTCC privateers
Hmmm, but which other series would want the machinery?
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 09:19 (Ref:3724117)   #229
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
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Originally Posted by VXDave View Post
What is surprising is that in the S2000 days, the BMWs had to run 40kg (IIRC) heavier than FWD cars, if they used the sequential 'box (again, IIRC).

It does seem strange that a weight penalty for RWD wasn't implemented in the rules for NGTC from the outset (or at least when the rules were altered to accommodate RWD).

I wouldn't say that the RWD cars have a massive advantage, but they get an almost guaranteed benefit of being able to jump one or two (or more) cars off the line, which kind of undoes the point of qualifying to some extent. From that point, if a BM has jumped you, even though they take longer to get their tyres up to temp, it's far more difficult to pass them on the first few laps than it is for a BM to simply jump you off the line.

That said, having a mix of drives on the grid is more interesting than having it all the same, and the racing at the weekend was superb. BMs have traditionally gone well at Brands; I think some of the longer wheel base cars with the more slippery bodies will be the ones to beat at Donnington. It's set to be a fascinating season!

Also - a shout out to Senna Proctor... he may be a rookie, but three finishes in his first meeting including one points finish was a really good showing.
Having said that, wasn't NGTC designed with more FWD designed from the outset? If I recall the rear subframe was slightly redesigned in 2013 to allow for *better RWD* (in some form) - I can't recall exactly what was changed, however I believe the consensus was that the rear of the car wasn't doing what the the RWD teams wanted and a minor redesign was all they could do...?

Also the benefits of RWD really don't play out in such short races. Back in the 90s the super touring races at Brands Hatch *I think* were 30 laps each. Now they are 24 laps. This doesn't allow BMW to play their tyre preservation card at all, as the tyres barely have any drop off, (although this is dependent on what tyre the drivers are on and on what track).
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 09:58 (Ref:3724128)   #230
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Hmmm, but which other series would want the machinery?
A lot of ex-Dynamics cars have gone to Asia, some to race and some to collectors. There's a few series in Asia and other parts of the world where it potentially could be used. From a collector's point of view, it's taken Shedden to 2 BTCC titles so would be something worth having.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 12:12 (Ref:3724145)   #231
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Not sure why people are interested in an NGTC cars providence. By the end of the season they are mostly "triggers brooms" anyway.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 12:24 (Ref:3724148)   #232
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I wonder hoe long WSR can use a RWD BMW when the new FWD 1 series is released.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/1-s...drive-platform


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The BMW 1 Series has been a huge success since it launched in 2004, but BMW is planning a complete rethink for the third generation of its premium hatchback. It’s due to arrive at the end of next year, before going on sale early in 2019, but while our images reveal that it’ll look similar to the model it replaces, a radical revamp under the skin will see rear-wheel drive ditched in favour of drive to the front axle.
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Four-wheel drive for hot M Sport models
Maybe they'll use the 4WD as a platform for RWD?
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 12:26 (Ref:3724149)   #233
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redshoes should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridredshoes should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridredshoes should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Not sure why people are interested in an NGTC cars providence. By the end of the season they are mostly "triggers brooms" anyway.
Same could be said for many old F1 cars. The tub remains the only original component, all the mechanical and body parts get swapped out or replaced. Doesn't stop people spending big money.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 13:41 (Ref:3724158)   #234
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I wonder hoe long WSR can use a RWD BMW when the new FWD 1 series is released.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/1-s...drive-platform

Maybe they'll use the 4WD as a platform for RWD?
Won't the engine be mounted in the wrong direction for this to comply with the regulations?

If BMW are keen to promote the new 1-Series (which is likely given their backing of WSR), then they may be forced down the FWD route, leaving Subaru as the only RWD car on the grid.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 14:07 (Ref:3724168)   #235
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A FWD Beemer is just wrong. Unnatural. Like a front-engined Porsche (and I say that even though my stepfather has a Macan).
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 14:43 (Ref:3724177)   #236
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A FWD Beemer is just wrong. Unnatural. Like a front-engined Porsche (and I say that even though my stepfather has a Macan).
It's becoming standard for them now with the UKL platform they use for the mini.

The X1 and 2-series have already gone down that route, and the 1-Series is following suit.
Hardly a surprise given this: 'Speaking to analysts following the release of BMW’s 2009 financial results last week, CEO Norbert Reithofer revealed that 80 percent of 1-series owners believe they are driving a front-wheel drive car.'
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 15:05 (Ref:3724182)   #237
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A shame to see the next 1-Series being FWD, but progress and that (well, cost cutting and a bigger boot..)

The car won't be out until 2018 and probably not on sale for the beginning of the year, so I guess Team BMW could continue with the current package through to the end of the 2018 season and switch in 2019, a la Honda and the Type-R.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 17:17 (Ref:3724200)   #238
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If that's the case then it might push them towards the 3 series assuming it's a good enough platform for NGTC. My personal wish would be the 2 series coupe, however outright coupes are not permitted any more in the BTCC despite being eligible during the BTC regs era.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 18:26 (Ref:3724212)   #239
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It's becoming standard for them now with the UKL platform they use for the mini.

The X1 and 2-series have already gone down that route, and the 1-Series is following suit.
Hardly a surprise given this: 'Speaking to analysts following the release of BMWs 2009 financial results last week, CEO Norbert Reithofer revealed that 80 percent of 1-series owners believe they are driving a front-wheel drive car.'
I don't believe I'm driving a FWD car, I just boot it at a roundabout and get the rear end out lol
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 17:20 (Ref:3724690)   #240
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A FWD Beemer is just wrong. Unnatural. Like a front-engined Porsche (and I say that even though my stepfather has a Macan).
For sake of TCR I say bring it on. But I agree FWD Beemers are wrong. On the other hand if their customers don't care why not?
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