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Old 15 Nov 2019, 10:47 (Ref:3940705)   #31
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Save a lot of what?
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Old 15 Nov 2019, 11:14 (Ref:3940713)   #32
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!3 sets per car per weekend does seem a tad excessive.

5460 tyres a year for the field counting GP weekends only.

It would seem there is a major saving in transport and environmental effects by reducing the number of tyres used.
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Old 15 Nov 2019, 17:20 (Ref:3940792)   #33
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i mean, it's not if you break it down and compare it to say, a british gt team who test and run cars a lot more frequently. you'd probably be looking at a similar quantity per year. blancpain gt events go through a fair old number too.

if you REALLY want to scare yourself, have a look at the number of tyres that are used at le mans and the spa 24.

to make a real impact you'd need to make a sport-wide rule that a set has to last a minimum of 200km rather than 100km. but of course, then races get a bit boring.
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Old 16 Nov 2019, 00:44 (Ref:3940857)   #34
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i mean, it's not if you break it down and compare it to say, a british gt team who test and run cars a lot more frequently. you'd probably be looking at a similar quantity per year. blancpain gt events go through a fair old number too.

if you REALLY want to scare yourself, have a look at the number of tyres that are used at le mans and the spa 24.

to make a real impact you'd need to make a sport-wide rule that a set has to last a minimum of 200km rather than 100km. but of course, then races get a bit boring.

This was quite an interesting piece Bella:

12 sets of slicks for the Le Mans weekend - Same as F1 for GP weekend.

https://www.michelinmotorsport.com/N...-and-endurance

... the winning Audi R18 TDi/Michelin used just nine sets of tyres (36 covers) on its way to completing 355 laps (4,838km).

Benoît Tréluyer even covered almost five stints (750km) on the same rubber: “I remember it well. My Michelins that day were incredibly consistent. I didn’t feel the slightest fall-off in performance over the run and I believe I posted my fastest laps towards the end…”

Michelin usage at Le Mans would seem to be doing more for sustainable research than the 2 lap Pirellis that are being used in F1
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Old 16 Nov 2019, 15:09 (Ref:3940936)   #35
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This was quite an interesting piece Bella:

12 sets of slicks for the Le Mans weekend - Same as F1 for GP weekend.

https://www.michelinmotorsport.com/N...-and-endurance

... the winning Audi R18 TDi/Michelin used just nine sets of tyres (36 covers) on its way to completing 355 laps (4,838km).
my original comment was a throwaway comment looking at overall number of tyres used by an event, since the figure seemed to be startling people.

but hey, let's go deep in this le mans example, further than the data you produce there. they're allocated 20 sets for the entire event, including practice. for the sake of the conversation let's use that as a figure for the gt cars too, so that's 56 times 20. times 4 to give you a total number of tyres. plus a margin of error to cover backsides for every size the field runs (spoiler: there's a lot of variation). then almost double it to include wets that they have to bring.

that's in the region of 8,000 tyres. assume around 600 per truck, which produces its own carbon footprint (and cost). imagine the number of staff (and coffee machines) you need to bring to run two shifts. the electricity needed to power the compressors to fit the tyres. etc etc.

at the other end of the scale is formula e. two sets an event - the mileage could easily be done on a slick but for some reason they're stuck on the whole road-relevance thing which is weird considering the cars are spaceships. or something like proper f3 or formula renault, where it's 2-3 sets per weekend. much smaller setups, one shift, much smaller transport requirements. helps that they take up a lot less space than an 18-19" gt or lmp tyre, mind.

but of course, none of the above series use tyres as the main tool to structure the race around. f1 needs pit stops, different compounds to help build a race. you could say to them "ok, you get one set of each compound for practice, then one set of each for qualifying and the race, and you have to run on each of them for a minimum of 100km." but then it's not a f1 sprint race is it? you're turning it into an endurance event.

if f1 is meant to be the peak of something performancey - technology, prestige, whatever - for the manufacturers then it is for the tyre companies too. if you want to neutralise that, and bring it down to the level of something like, idk, ginetta juniors, who run an entire weekend on a single set of road tyres that never overheat or go low on tread, then fine.
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Old 17 Nov 2019, 04:58 (Ref:3941037)   #36
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275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid275 GTB-4 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
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f1 needs pit stops, different compounds to help build a race. you could say to them "ok, you get one set of each compound for practice, then one set of each for qualifying and the race, and you have to run on each of them for a minimum of 100km." but then it's not a f1 sprint race is it? you're turning it into an endurance event.
"you have to run on each of them for a minimum of 100km" - with an allowance for those damaged by CARBON fibre slashing their footprints!
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Old 17 Nov 2019, 22:47 (Ref:3941267)   #37
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According to the Rubber Manufacturer's Association (RMA), it takes about seven gallons of oil to create a standard car tire. The RMA states that about five gallons of oil are used as the feedstock, while another two gallons are used in the tire manufacturing process itself. Apr 19, 2016
7 gallon x 3.78541litres = 26.5 litres per tyre.

Using a standard car tyre
13 sets x 4 tyres x 26.5 litres = 1378 litres of oil usage to manufacture tyres per car per GP.

Laps and Fuel Usage in Brazilian GP estimate
18 laps First practice (Laps based on most run by any car in a session.)
41 laps 2nd Practice
23 laps 3rd Practice
10 laps Q1
6 laps Q2
6 laps Q3
71 laps race
175 laps Total

Fuel allowance for GP is 105 kg or 142 litres for 71 laps.

175/71 x 142 = 350 litres total fuel burn per car for GP weekend.

So roughly across the race weekend we have 1378 litres of oil in the tyres, and 350 litres of fuel burnt per car.

Seems to be a bit of a paradox?
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 11:47 (Ref:3941600)   #38
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Actually jetting around the globe in an organised way would help a lot, but that wouldn't work for commercial reasons. So for example, have China the week after Japan, and then have Sinapore etc etc.
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 12:18 (Ref:3941608)   #39
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Better still, have; Japan, Mexico, Brazil, USA, Canada, Great Britain, Italy, Germany, Austria, France, Spain, Portugal. Less air travel, less tyre usage and better circuits (excluding Mexico and USA). Job's a good'un.
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 16:05 (Ref:3941643)   #40
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The RMA states that about five gallons of oil are used as the feedstock, while another two gallons are used in the tire manufacturing process itself. [/COLOR]Apr 19, 2016[/SIZE][/FONT]
7 gallon x 3.78541litres = 26.5 litres per tyre.
why is so much oil still used to make the tires?

why is so much money is invested in generating power only to have that power wasted due to a very small contact patch of rapidly deteriorating rubber?

i can appreciate that after 150 odd years of using rubber that this aspect of car design will not change...what im curious about is whether or not there is research being done to find alternatives to using oil to create the synthetic compounds necessary to make tires?

i guess what im getting at, is that F1 (because of the money being spent, its global reach, the manus and companies involved) might be a more effective platform through which to develop new technologies while reexamining the logic being what went into creating those old technologies?

is there any real advantage to just letting a tire manu use F1 as an advertising platform? seems like more of a missed opportunity imo.

perhaps there needs to be a tire war or new tire tender with a mandate that sets all those chemical engineers towards creating a more sustainable synthetic compounds to make racing rubber.

i dont know if that is even possible or not but i suppose i would have said that a decade ago about a vastly more thermally efficient engine as well.

or maybe they already are but F1 being F1 they just dont talk about it enough.

flying around the world less and consuming less resources is obviously a good message for consumers but perhaps F1 would be better served by showcasing innovation more.
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 16:40 (Ref:3941651)   #41
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The oil is in the polymers and not necessarily as a raw product in and of itself.
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 16:51 (Ref:3941652)   #42
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Chilli, not answering your question directly, but the world is already suffering from a shortage of natural foodstuffs, and trying to find plant based alternatives to oil products is only going to make that deficit worse. We (the world) are already seeing this when we look at how so many countries are chopping down forests and ripping out food producing crops just to replace them with palm trees.

And recycling is not always the panacea that we are lead to believe.
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 18:56 (Ref:3941665)   #43
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The oil is in the polymers and not necessarily as a raw product in and of itself.
No Man is the problem, we continue to overpopulate at an alarming rate and unless the world takes action no amount of blaming everything else will matter.
Carbon is not as bad as some people make out, the period called the carboniferous was when co2 levels were many times current levels and guess what the world was covered with forests utilising that co2 to produce oil, gas and coal. there are always two sides to a story but currently the press ignores over population and history because it is not currently seen as the pressing issue.
Sorry for ranting but like to point out there are other views out there.
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Old 19 Nov 2019, 19:35 (Ref:3941669)   #44
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Chilli, not answering your question directly, but the world is already suffering from a shortage of natural foodstuffs, and trying to find plant based alternatives to oil products is only going to make that deficit worse. We (the world) are already seeing this when we look at how so many countries are chopping down forests and ripping out food producing crops just to replace them with palm trees.
Not sure about elsewhere, but here in the US farmers produce corn not to eat, but to ferment into ethanol as our gasoline is mandated to contain a percentage of ethanol.

I am all for renewable energy, recycling, etc. I am not sure I buy into the US ethanol strategy.

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Old 19 Nov 2019, 19:45 (Ref:3941671)   #45
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Actually jetting around the globe in an organised way would help a lot, but that wouldn't work for commercial reasons. So for example, have China the week after Japan, and then have Sinapore etc etc.
Break F1 down into a series of regional championships (Europe, Asia, South America, etc.) with no air travel. Regional teams must be based in their region. Host a single winner take all event (or a VERY small championship such as three events or so) in Europe in which regional champs would fly in to race. Not sure if that would reduce overall travel footprint or just condense it into a single event.

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