Official Brazilian Grand Prix 2019: Grand Prix Weekend Thread - Round 20 of 21 - Page 12

F1Pete · 25 Nov 2019, 02:28 (Ref:3942664)

I have said this time and time again....and I am sure everyone agrees. The obvious fix to all the problems at Ferrari is to bring Kimi back to replace Vettel. Ferrari got rid of the wrong guy.

Look at all the points that Vettel has thrown away the last couple of years or more. Look at the turmoil he has caused within the team and with his new team mate. Ferrari has a washed up driver pressuring his team, causing issues, unwanted stress and team instability.

Look at Mercedes with both drivers creating synergy within the team. Synergy equals success. Kimi would bring the team stability, popularity, synergy and stability. There would be no stress between the drivers, garages, etc. The focus would be on racing, winning and not egos.

I remember way back in the day when I predicted JV would be called up to drive the Beemer (BMW). I received hate posts from the naysayers. Well, it happened.

Surely, Ferrari management can see this would be a common sense move for 2020. Italy would literally go crazy. Kimi back to Ferrari. Kimi WDC 2020. Anything can happen in Formula One.

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RWill2073 · 25 Nov 2019, 04:42 (Ref:3942686)

Quote:

Originally Posted by F1Pete

I have said this time and time again....and I am sure everyone agrees. The obvious fix to all the problems at Ferrari is to bring Kimi back to replace Vettel. Ferrari got rid of the wrong guy.

Look at all the points that Vettel has thrown away the last couple of years or more. Look at the turmoil he has caused within the team and with his new team mate. Ferrari has a washed up driver pressuring his team, causing issues, unwanted stress and team instability.

Look at Mercedes with both drivers creating synergy within the team. Synergy equals success. Kimi would bring the team stability, popularity, synergy and stability. There would be no stress between the drivers, garages, etc. The focus would be on racing, winning and not egos.

I remember way back in the day when I predicted JV would be called up to drive the Beemer (BMW). I received hate posts from the naysayers. Well, it happened.

Surely, Ferrari management can see this would be a common sense move for 2020. Italy would literally go crazy. Kimi back to Ferrari. Kimi WDC 2020. Anything can happen in Formula One.

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If..... this happened, your last sentence makes no sense. Kimi would only he brought in as a clear number 2. No way would he be brought back to win a wdc. That would not create harmony as you suggest in the rest of your post. If Kimi was brought back, it is to give leclerc clear preferred status.

But, you can't say vettel is washed up and then say bring back kimi. He's not in his prime anymore. And vettel hasn't been the cause of turmoil in ferrari. Poor management that lead to failures have been the reason for turmoil. Vettel has at times (rightly) had to put his stamp on strategy and whatnot because he can't trust the team to get it right, which they mostly haven't.

Seriously, on dollars per whatever performance metric you choose, is there a more underachieving team than ferrari?

P38 in workshop · 25 Nov 2019, 09:05 (Ref:3942701)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWill2073

Seriously, on dollars per whatever performance metric you choose, is there a more underachieving team than ferrari?

With the exception of the Schumacher era ,you describe the situation that has existed for about forty years. Better funded than the others and vast resources to call on. When they were testing at Fiorano three hundred plus days each year they were doing well and now that advantage has been removed by the testing restrictions. At the other end of the cost/performance scale you have Toro Rosso doing very well with much less.

S griffin · 25 Nov 2019, 11:07 (Ref:3942711)

Ferrari were the most organised team in the early to mid noughites. Now they are back to how they were before, very Italian as in lack of organisation and unpredictable at times. Very much like when Enzo was alive

crmalcolm · 25 Nov 2019, 11:20 (Ref:3942716)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

Now they are back to how they were before, very Italian as in lack of organisation and unpredictable at times.

Anything to back up the claim that an Italian trait is to have a lack of organisation and be unpredictable?

the 'Ndrangheta, the Camorra and the Sicilian mafia are all described as organised.....

S griffin · 25 Nov 2019, 11:55 (Ref:3942726)

The point I’m making is that Ferrari before the Todt era were very chaotic in it’s management at times and as a result never achieved what they could have, like today

RWill2073 · 25 Nov 2019, 14:12 (Ref:3942742)

Quote:

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

Anything to back up the claim that an Italian trait is to have a lack of organisation and be unpredictable?

the 'Ndrangheta, the Camorra and the Sicilian mafia are all described as organised.....

I mean, if we want to go down that route, comparing it with the mafia for a trait of "organization", a business with tons of in-fighting, backstabbing, assassination attempts on bosses, that ends up destroying anything good around it, sounds a lot like Ferrari, with drama, in fighting, and destroying careers of greats like alonso and vettel......

I mean, you have two family members trying to take each other out to move up the ranks.... sounds mafia-like in those terms...

F1Pete · 25 Nov 2019, 15:18 (Ref:3942761)

I didn't say Kimi would come back as their number one driver. Leclerc would get that status and so he should. Kimi would just happen to beat him

.

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**bjohnsonsmith** · 25 Nov 2019, 15:29 (Ref:3942767)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWill2073

I mean, if we want to go down that route, comparing it with the mafia for a trait of "organization", a business with tons of in-fighting, backstabbing, assassination attempts on bosses, that ends up destroying anything good around it, sounds a lot like Ferrari, with drama, in fighting, and destroying careers of greats like alonso and vettel......

I mean, you have two family members trying to take each other out to move up the ranks.... sounds mafia-like in those terms...

I've worked with Italians for a number of years and they are very enthusiastic and dedicated to the project they are working on. However, when someone comes up with an alternative idea on how to do something, then they tend to drop what they were originally working on, before seeing that through to completion and concentrate on the new idea. Then they return to what they were originally working on. That's my experience and I wonder if that's what is gong on at Ferrari?

**Peter Mallett** · 25 Nov 2019, 15:32 (Ref:3942768)

Ditto. They also spend a lot of time arguing amongst themselves. That said they can be really good fun and the food and the country are generally very, very good.

crmalcolm · 25 Nov 2019, 19:33 (Ref:3942808)

Having lived and worked in Italy for a few years, the 'issue' that they seem to have as a nation is precisely that they don't see themselves as a nation.

In the south, it was family first, community second, country last.
What I did not see though was a lack of organisation - a lack of foresight and planning maybe, but not organisation.

That is why I failed to see the connection between a lack of organisation and being Italian?

'very Italian as in lack of organisation'