Why are there no single car F1 teams besides cost?

[brightline]

I was wondering why there are no single car F1 teams, aside from the fact that overall it is cheaper with testing, development, etc? Is there a rule that your team must have two cars? Also, why must they be painted the same?

On another side note/question...Why are the numbers almost non-existent in F1 these days? I don't know whose helmet is who, it's got to be frustrating for the Average Joe especially when both drivers have similar helmet schemes on top of that!

Any insight?

[Red]

Yes, there is a rule. Each team shall line up 2 cars, no less. (as a matter of facts they all should line up no less than 20 cars too). It's the Concorde Agreement.

As for the numbers.. well, they're still there, but as you said almost inexistent. Basically is because they occupy space of the car. Anyway, it won't help much to have them, you get the driver much better if you look at the driver's helmets and little differences in the car's liveries (they're no always identical). You can get the helmets here.

[avsfan733]

At the non tobacco races, Mcclaren writes Kimi and David on the side3pods of each ones individual car

[ljakse]

And there is also a rule a rule about painting the cars in the same scheme.
BAR tried to enter two differently coloured cars (two cigarettes' brands) in 1998, but were ordered to have them equaly painted.
What Red is talking about are small differences that you wouldn't notice if you don't know where to look for them. Here are just some of them:
*Ferrari and Macs have different colours on camera posts for each driver (I think Jordan does the same, but I'm not sure)
*Sauber has differently painted mirrors

[Red]

Yep, David's is red/orange, Kimi's black. Michael's has a red stripe, Rubens' is black. Trulli's is yellow, Alonso's is black. Stuff like that. Hmm, maybe we should start a thread and compile a full list...

[Adam43]

Michael's is the one ahead, Rubens the one behind. A similar (but less strict rule) can be applied to all the teams

[twig]

I think Williams also has a White-painted T-Cam on one of their cars.

Remember the problems with the 2000 Ferrari helmet colours before TGF became mainly red....and the 2002 Renault with Trulli and Button......both very similar helmet colours.

[corkholio]

Another reason why there are no one car teams is because the sport has become increasingly technologically based and the fact that a one car team means one less set of data puts the team at a significant disadvantage.

I think the same paint job rule was just a ploy used by Max & Bernie to pi$$ off the Idiot Ski Instructor and BAR because they were making it sound as if they would just waltz in and cakewalk F1.

[BootsOntheSide]

Craig Pollock's achievements:

Studying long and hard enough to become a teacher at a top private school, teaching in a seocnd language.

Managing the career of one of the world's top racing drivers

Founding an F1 team with no manufacturer backing, and taking only one season to turn it into regualr pointscorers, despite the second driver being a flop.

Starting up a CART team, a big financial risk given the championship's precarious position.

Attack the Post, not the poster. Flame bait deleted-EERO

The point about numebrs is very valid, the officials should make it compulsory for the numbers to be bigger.

[EERO]

Originally posted by corkholio
Another reason why there are no one car teams is because the sport has become increasingly technologically based and the fact that a one car team means one less set of data puts the team at a significant disadvantage.

I think the same paint job rule was just a ploy used by Max & Bernie to pi$$ off the Idiot Ski Instructor and BAR because they were making it sound as if they would just waltz in and cakewalk F1.

The single livery rule was in place before BAR tried to circumvent it.

As for the issue of one-car teams. Its a rule, plain and simple. I agree with your assessment that its more efficient to distribute developemnt costs across two platforms, but I think that is a side effect of the rule. I'd bet that Minardi would run a single car if they were allowed to.

[Red]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
The point about numebrs is very valid, the officials should make it compulsory for the numbers to be bigger.

I don't think so. I'd say that is by far easier to recognize the driver by his helmet, rather than memorising a list of 20 numbers to drivers corespondence, which changes every year by the way. (with a couple of exceptions ). And if you can't see the helmet, you won't see the number regardless of it's size.

[jetsetter]

In any form of open wheeler racing it's much easier to recognise helmet's than number's especially when they go by at 300 km/h but i still would like them to put them on the car's where they can be seen.

[Bononi]

Oh, well... is there any need to know that TGF's car is number one ?

Who has the # 13, anybody knows ? Pizzonia or Panis, maybe ?

[ljakse]

Bononi, Bononi...

[ASCII Man]

Nobody has number 13.
Webber and Pizzonia have numbers 14 and 15 while Fisichella and Firman have 11 and 12.

[corkholio]

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Managing the career of one of the world's top racing drivers

Who is so well managed that he is on course to drop out of F1 and might only end up in NASCAR as a last resort.

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Founding an F1 team with no manufacturer backing, and taking only one season to turn it into regualr pointscorers, despite the second driver being a flop.

Eddie Jordan managed to do better than that with a far smaller budget. Simtek and Pacific would have lasted past 1995 if they had half the budget of BAR.

Originally posted by BootsOntheSide
Starting up a CART team, a big financial risk given the championship's precarious position.

Don't forget that he has turned equpiment that ran in the midfield in the previous year into equpiment that now runs in the back, despite having no shortage of driving talent.


No need to gloat, Corky-EERO

[Bononi]

Originally posted by ®îjñtjûh
Nobody has number 13.
Webber and Pizzonia have numbers 14 and 15 while Fisichella and Firman have 11 and 12.

Ok. Anyone has the # 24 then ?

[ljakse]

Bon - are you OK?

[Bononi]

Just curious mate...

[429CJ]

What was the last single car team, Rial?

[NiceGuyEddie]

Teams are obliged to run one car with the T-cam in teamcolouring. Usually the car of the number 1 driver.

[brightline]

I agree that drivers helmets ARE easiter to spot than numbers, however they unfortuantely do not flash the drivers helmet on the screen next to his name, they put the number on the screen. It would be very simple to (at least to me) to mandate certain point(s) on the car where the number must be: on the nose of the car and/or on top of the fuel flap (and it's corresponding point on the other side). Sure I know what the teams are, but if I see a Toyota on the screen I don't know which drivers it is. Aside from the top three teams can anyone really pick out the helmet and know who it is before the announcers fumble through their cheat sheet with the helmets on them?

The only reason I say this is I think the numbers on the drivers baseball caps are bigger than the ones on the cars, in which case why don't their baseball caps look like their helmets?...food for thought.

[Red]

Originally posted by brightline
Aside from the top three teams can anyone really pick out the helmet and know who it is before [...]

Hmm... Yeah. Well, I agree that if you shouw me Firman's helmet and ask me what's that, most probably I'll miss, but when I see his helmet in the Jordan car I surely know that he's not Fisichella.

Originally posted by brightline
It would be very simple to (at least to me) to mandate certain point(s) on the car where the number must be: on the nose of the car and/or on top of the fuel flap (and it's corresponding point on the other side).

It's already done:
2003 F1 Sporting Regulations
CAR LIVERY
63) Each car will carry the race number of its driver (or his replacement) as published by the FIA at the
beginning of the season. When a car is shown on a 25 cm television monitor in such a way as substantially to fill
the screen in at least one dimension, its race number must be clearly visible from the front of the car.

64) The name or the emblem of the make of the car must appear on the front of the nose of the car and in
either case be at least 25mm in its largest dimension. The name of the driver must also appear on the bodywork,
on the outside of the cockpit, or on the driver's helmet and be clearly legible.

Please note the "substantially fill the 25cm screen in at least one dimension". Anyway, the numbers are clearly visible, but when the car is parked in Parc Fermee for example and TV shows a closeup. Definitelly not when the car is running at 300 KMh, and is in a 3-4 cars pack.

As for the baseball caps. Well, perhaps having each player with his own design would help better than numbers, however considering that each team has some 20-50 players( really have no idea how many of them ) and also there are some 20-50 teams in the league, it's not realistic to memorize at least 400 different helmets, most probably much more.

[f1manoz]

Originally posted by 429CJ
What was the last single car team, Rial?

Rial only APPEARED to have one car there!

I'd like to see the return of one car teams simply to boost the number of cars there. Let some entrepreuners take hold of year old cars and give some drivers who are capable of driving in F1 a run during a race to impress team bosses.

[RWC]

It's because of bernie and max's STUPID rulemaking