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Old 7 Apr 2017, 14:17 (Ref:3724354)   #2526
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Still waiting for the DP car they were evaluating years ago - this is another believe it when you see it.
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Old 7 Apr 2017, 14:22 (Ref:3724356)   #2527
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Right, it'll be a marketing exercise, solely for the N-A market (and therefor funding probably has to come from Audi N-A with drivers being supplied by Audi Sport) to boost Audi's image against Cadillac. No more, no less.

It's not rocket science, is it?

Will it happen? I don't know but I certainly hope so. I'd say the chances of Audi coming up with a DPi program are far greater than a P1 return in a couple of years. That big-money-spending-ship has sailed. Face the reality folks.
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Old 7 Apr 2017, 21:13 (Ref:3724453)   #2528
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I don't think that the big money ship has sailed for VAG considering that if anything Porsche are spending more than ever on the WEC with a LMP1 and factory GTE program. On the Audi end, even with dieselgate, they're still one of VAG's more profitable brands.

Not to mention that if Audi want to have a racing program based around hydrogen tech, it'll have to be in LMP1. F1 or DPI have no provisions for such things, also considering that outside of customer focused programs, Audi Sport have preferred to do development oriented programs. Like the entire life of their LMP program.

Audi have either done racing usually either for road relevance/production based racing, or R&D purposes. Only exceptions are DTM (German National Pride), and Formula E, which is in part to save face with dieselgate, and as a makework for a possible LMP1 return in my opinion.

Also, if Audi Sport support a DPI program, Audi of America will have to pay for it. And they're the ones who are most directly involved with the settlements over dieselgate, not to mention that they've been loathe to support a NA centric program over the years, which is what lead to Audi leaving the ALMS after '08.

Also notice that Audi have tended in recent times to leave a program or series as far as road racing about every 8 years, usually when they've exhausted a program as far as it's immediate usefulness? Audi left the ALMS after they achieved their goals with the R10. Also, Audi pretty much exhausted their TDI diesel tech as far as LMP went without a major re-think of their engine concept due to them running 8+MJ would've meant 2 ERS systems, something they couldn't do with the diesel engine as it was without risking an overweight car.

Only other solution was to run a gasoline engine which would've been redundant given what Porsche has been up to. Even if you ask the drivers, they were surprised about the when, not the if, of the conclusion of the Audi Sport LMP program for the foreseeable future.

DPI might be a make work for Joest and Audi Sport if someone pays for it, but just like Audi in F1, Audi leaving LMP, or Audi coming back to LMP, I'll believe it when I see it. However, given what the recent trends at Audi and Audi Sport have been, a LMP1 return in 2020 might be more likely than DPI, and especially F1.

For this, maybe the Audi Sport LMP1 thread needs resurrected.
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 04:07 (Ref:3724509)   #2529
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Just sayin'.










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Old 8 Apr 2017, 04:46 (Ref:3724515)   #2530
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Penske could've run a program for Audi in the ALMS in 2010 or '11, but he and AOA wouldn't foot the bill. Then last year he was told that Audi didn't want to run the R18s in private hands, partly because of dieselgate, and if the factory team could barely cope with the car's temperamental hybrid system, how could a private team expect to run the cars without essentially becoming a factory team?
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 05:20 (Ref:3724521)   #2531
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Penske could've run a program for Audi in the ALMS in 2010 or '11, but he and AOA wouldn't foot the bill. Then last year he was told that Audi didn't want to run the R18s in private hands, partly because of dieselgate, and if the factory team could barely cope with the car's temperamental hybrid system, how could a private team expect to run the cars without essentially becoming a factory team?
So you expect that an Audi DPi would run a temperamental hybrid system?





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Old 8 Apr 2017, 07:41 (Ref:3724548)   #2532
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Personally I would love to see it happen, Audi have several engine platforms which they could throw in at a moments notice and easy be ready for 2018:

GT3 based 5.2L V10 - 570bhp....probably a bit heavy, but the correct capacity for sure

DTM based 4.0L V8 - 500hp.....probably ideal, but lacking capacity compared to Caddys, but its ready

Or just throwing it out there, it would need to have Technology behind it for Audi to compete, so as a wild card I would say Audis new I5 cylinder 2.5L turbo.....it would sound truly epic....and bring back days of the Audi-IMSA cars driven by Walter-Stroll.....the sound, oh the sound.....I would crawl over broken glass to hear that motor - proper race motor.

turn the volume up and listen to this, start from about 2 minutes in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOkeGOJ_dHY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjiM-yIdYic

dtm 4.0 would be required to push it to 9000rpm or more to get close to 600hp (dtm revs up to 7500rpm) and being an engine almost 15 years old, don't think has a great fuel milliage/efficiency (if memory helps me, audi v8 dtm engine is a reworked irl honda unit). Not great torque release too.

Huracan/R8 engine has DI and pushes over 600hp @ about 8500rpm. Of course, like gibson, it lacks of low end torque, but at least has shown to be very reliable in gt3 trim (that revs up to 8500rpm but about 520hp).

The wisest pick would be the 4.0 V8 twin turbo that powers bentley gt3... but (don't know if engines rules have been changed this fall) as far I know turbo V8 are not allowed in P class
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 10:19 (Ref:3724601)   #2533
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That's cosmic to see, those cars at the Sachsenring. Would love to see more four wheeled racing there
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 13:36 (Ref:3724651)   #2534
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and if the factory team could barely cope with the car's temperamental hybrid system
Temperamental? When? Where?

I remember it being rather reliable.
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 15:26 (Ref:3724661)   #2535
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So you expect that an Audi DPi would run a temperamental hybrid system?





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No, but again, someone else misses my point. Audi Sport won't foot a DPI bill out of their own pockets. It'll have to be Audi of America, who in the past have done little to fund any North American program, or Penske will have to do it himself, or whoever decides to do it. Any support that Audi will throw their way will be a token gesture, just like Nissan with ESM. Basically stickers and an engine, which as proven by ESM/Nissan and Cadillac/GM, is largely what's needed.

Not to mention that DPI goes against everything that Audi have stood for in prototype racing (development/R&D, minimal BOP, things that the DPI formula hasn't embraced and in fact has done the opposite).

And besides, Penske was the one who approached Audi Sport about running their R18s in the WEC and LM this year, and was turned down because of dieselgate and Audi's own problems with the car that they could barely manage.

If they want to market a production based car, they'll race a production based car. And they already do with the R8, RS3 and S1.
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 18:08 (Ref:3724699)   #2536
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Temperamental? When? Where?

I remember it being rather reliable.
"Temperamental" does NOT mean "unreliable." (though it CAN result in a lack of reliability) It's merely a way of saying it's difficult to work with and set up correctly.

You know, like the problems produced by BoP that caused two Porsche teams to leave GTD(assuming it wasn't just an excuse) late last year despite the car still being competitive.

It's a testament to the Audi team's abilities that they could work around the headaches and make it all work. The R18's hybrid system is not the only one that's known to be a bit of a headache to set up - I've heard the same about the Porsche and Toyota hybrid systems as well.
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Old 8 Apr 2017, 19:28 (Ref:3724713)   #2537
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Temperamental? When? Where?

I remember it being rather reliable.
Not on the 2016 car. They had as many DNFs due to hybrid system failures last year as Audi had due to mechanical problems dating back to 2010.

When it worked, it worked well, but when it didn't, they might as well have retired the car, given that the hybrid system wasn't easy to fix when it went down. Combined with the fact that the car's performance depended so much on the hybrid and the ACO, after letting Porsche get away with it at Bahrain in 2015 and Spa last year, banned cars from running with shut down hybrid systems from LM onwards.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 16:50 (Ref:3725060)   #2538
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By the way the WTR Cadillac qualified half a second faster than the muscle milk hpd and half second slower than the rebellion Lola from 2013.both ran with the wider front MICHELIN tires and both were no slouches.




Also PWC and GTD qualifying times were really close at long beach,and that's with PWC running the supposedly better perelli tires.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 21:40 (Ref:3725109)   #2539
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The Cadillacs supposedly also have 600+bhp, something that LMP1s allegedly didn't have back then outside of the factory cars.

And I'd bet that those LMP1s still cornered faster than the DPIs did.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 21:47 (Ref:3725110)   #2540
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By the way the WTR Cadillac qualified half a second faster than the muscle milk hpd and half second slower than the rebellion Lola from 2013.both ran with the wider front MICHELIN tires and both were no slouches.




Also PWC and GTD qualifying times were really close at long beach,and that's with PWC running the supposedly better perelli tires.
They were probably less powerful and had more drag (wider cars) but then you look at Sebring and the results are different. Not many 'downforce' turns at Long Beach vs Sebring.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 21:49 (Ref:3725111)   #2541
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So recap of manufacturers looking at DPi?

Honda/HPD with Penske using the NSX engine?
Hyundai?
Audi/Joest? V10 maybe?
Volvo?
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2017/0...aks-cover.html
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 22:22 (Ref:3725123)   #2542
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That was an April Fool's joke.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 22:39 (Ref:3725128)   #2543
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Well the nsx in gtd is only supposed to be a one year deal allowed by Imsa, shank won't stay in gtd unless some one pays him.i see Honda with MSR in dpi next year,it's the most recent relationship and has the most recent expieriance with Imsa compared to Penske.
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Old 9 Apr 2017, 23:08 (Ref:3725133)   #2544
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Well the nsx in gtd is only supposed to be a one year deal allowed by Imsa, shank won't stay in gtd unless some one pays him.i see Honda with MSR in dpi next year,it's the most recent relationship and has the most recent expieriance with Imsa compared to Penske.

This is a very interesting point you bring up.

If indeed Shank and IMSA both see through to that 1 year commitment (I hope), do you think that Shank would indeed be allowed to go the Honda Route in DPi next year? The reason I ask this, is what if Penske arrives with the most money to woo Honda with a factory backed effort for next year, and locks out the privateers, like Shank, who would likely go the Honda route as well due to having been supplied by their engines in the past? Having asked that, what other avenue could Shank consider in DPi? Nissan? Or perhaps even another Cadillac entry given how advantageous and well rounded the Caddy lumps are?

This scenario reminds me of what Cadillac themselves did in PWC when they entered their new GT3 in 2015, promised to open their car up to customers globally in 2016 and then, didn't.........
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 01:12 (Ref:3725159)   #2545
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The NSX GT3 has inquiries about purchasing the car already I thought. I think they have paid the 'entry fee' to imsa so you might just see a couple of amateur drivers who bring money and stuck in the team. Or maybe not and some other team wants to run the NSX?
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 01:19 (Ref:3725163)   #2546
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This is a very interesting point you bring up.

If indeed Shank and IMSA both see through to that 1 year commitment (I hope), do you think that Shank would indeed be allowed to go the Honda Route in DPi next year? The reason I ask this, is what if Penske arrives with the most money to woo Honda with a factory backed effort for next year, and locks out the privateers, like Shank, who would likely go the Honda route as well due to having been supplied by their engines in the past? Having asked that, what other avenue could Shank consider in DPi? Nissan? Or perhaps even another Cadillac entry given how advantageous and well rounded the Caddy lumps are?

This scenario reminds me of what Cadillac themselves did in PWC when they entered their new GT3 in 2015, promised to open their car up to customers globally in 2016 and then, didn't.........
I could see Shank going the pay driver route in GTD as well. It will be interesting to see what Lexus does after this season though.
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 03:41 (Ref:3725183)   #2547
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I could see Shank going the pay driver route in GTD as well. It will be interesting to see what Lexus does after this season though.
Lexus is evaluating GTLM Program for 2018
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/le...-gtlm-program/
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 04:05 (Ref:3725185)   #2548
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Unless Mazda starts getting consistently better results, a change in their operating team could be something they have in mind. If MSR ends up looking for a program next year outside of the HPD family, it could be a nice pairing.
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Old 10 Apr 2017, 05:29 (Ref:3725200)   #2549
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This is a very interesting point you bring up.

If indeed Shank and IMSA both see through to that 1 year commitment (I hope), do you think that Shank would indeed be allowed to go the Honda Route in DPi next year? The reason I ask this, is what if Penske arrives with the most money to woo Honda with a factory backed effort for next year, and locks out the privateers, like Shank, who would likely go the Honda route as well due to having been supplied by their engines in the past? Having asked that, what other avenue could Shank consider in DPi? Nissan? Or perhaps even another Cadillac entry given how advantageous and well rounded the Caddy lumps are?

This scenario reminds me of what Cadillac themselves did in PWC when they entered their new GT3 in 2015, promised to open their car up to customers globally in 2016 and then, didn't.........
Penske does not race on his own dime.






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Old 10 Apr 2017, 08:09 (Ref:3725227)   #2550
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Lexus is evaluating GTLM Program for 2018
http://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/le...-gtlm-program/
They are also evaluating whatever, but that doesn't make good headlines I guess.
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