|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
6 Dec 2020, 22:56 (Ref:4021203) | #626 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 519
|
+1!!!! you can never be to bold. They mess with the rules in rugby all the time and water the game down, so less are watching today including me. I was once a very big rugby guy, watch the ABs if I get time and nothing more today. Moved on, will do the same with motorsport when the time comes.
|
|
|
7 Dec 2020, 03:03 (Ref:4021249) | #627 | |
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
||
|
7 Dec 2020, 04:27 (Ref:4021256) | #628 | |
Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 67
|
I have similar feelings, lose the sound and yeah not sure i would follow. I tried TCR and yeah it just doesnt feel like a top end class.
Love GT3 but yeah way to expensive for regular racing here in Australia. Heck i find S5000 and TA2 more appealing than TCR by a wide margin. I know speedway is seen by many as a bogan sport, but the most popular classes by a wide margin are v8 powered. A 900hp 410ci sprintcar that weights the same as a mini is my sort of racecar, something that is a beast. |
|
|
7 Dec 2020, 04:48 (Ref:4021259) | #629 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,262
|
Quote:
You can’t have it both ways GT3 ultimately is no more expensive a formula than the current Supercar rules |
||
|
7 Dec 2020, 06:37 (Ref:4021272) | #630 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
Of course you can, as I've pointed out before - Supercars "claiming" ATCC history is valid as the Supercar series is the current form of the ATCC.
The Sierra photo is of another era of ATCC but still ATCC (as was the Group C era, production era etc). However the Sierra would not comply with the Supercar era technical rules, in the same way that an HDT Group C "Big Banger" wouldn't comply with the Group A era technical rules - yet they are all part of the ATCC in different eras. Quote:
I'd suggest that GT3 to buy is at last 1.5-1.7 times that of a Supercar PLUS the annual "update" kits at roughly .5 - .8 the value of a new Supercar, repair costs with factory parts needed well more than double and running costs wouldn't be all that much different from the current cars. |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
7 Dec 2020, 07:08 (Ref:4021273) | #631 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
|
Quote:
They can always fit a crossplane crankshaft to the four-cylinders if fans are desperate to cling to a lumpy uneven sound like the Boss 302 (Yamaha R1 crossplane inline-four example). |
||
|
7 Dec 2020, 10:04 (Ref:4021295) | #632 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 519
|
The sound is not the real point, you can have a crazy loud four cylinder engine with big turbos making big HP. But you can never make that engine produce the sound and FEEL of the HP that a big displacement V8 or V10-V12 gives you. The horsepower travels right through your body. Get a Trans Am car 750+hp coming straight in to the lane from the track and pull the front clip off and climb into that bad boy while is running. The heat is one thing 'feels like you're in a fire' you are shaking you're not sure if it's your nerves or the car why your legs and hands are shaking. Your head is right by the carb and you can't hear a thing over the vacuum. With the big cam at idle your eyes start to sting. The driver give it a stab to clear it out which scares the crap out of you. No four cylinder will do that!
You be in the pits when the call comes across race radio 'pit lane is open' and twenty odd big banger all fire up at the same time, like the gates of hell has just opened. Makes you jump! No four cylinder will do that! that's what the people like, a TQ midget will never make the hairs stand up on the back of your neck like a 900HP sprint car can. When they go on track all eyes are on them, it's not time for the toilet. V8s have always been big in this part of the world, when they go so will many fans. Fans the sport needs, these are not the golden years. Motor racing is more than just watching objects go round a track to see which one comes first. |
|
|
7 Dec 2020, 10:34 (Ref:4021300) | #633 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 406
|
Quote:
|
||
|
7 Dec 2020, 12:17 (Ref:4021326) | #634 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,517
|
|||
__________________
GO Hard or GO Home |
7 Dec 2020, 19:03 (Ref:4021429) | #635 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
Quote:
Bear in mind that the last time 4 cylinder cars were competing at the top level of the ATCC was very nearly 30 years ago - that means over a generation has grown up with the V8 experience from a racing perspective. The time may come that Supercars needs to change to something other than V8s but in reality I don't see it being welcomed by the fanbase at all. Much, much earlier in this thread (or the engine one) I suggested that Supercars might at some point form a closer relationship with NASCAR (the 2 bodies already communicate with each other) and maybe go down the V8 with hybrid boost path that NASCAR is heading down. With hybrid powertrains appearing to be under development by some manufacturers as well as or rather than full electric, that might fit well into the future world. |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
7 Dec 2020, 21:46 (Ref:4021467) | #636 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
In the meantime, maybe there's life in the IC engined racing world:
Porsche working on synthetic fuel for IC and Hybrid engines. Aston Martin intent on still offering some ICE powered cars after 2030. |
||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
8 Dec 2020, 05:31 (Ref:4021513) | #637 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
|
Quote:
List is comprised of: Holden. |
||
|
8 Dec 2020, 17:43 (Ref:4021610) | #638 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
Quote:
There are new-generation, more advanced hybrids being developed by a number of manufacturers that they appear to have much more faith / interest in than full electric. Nowhere near every manufacturer has those happening (yet). |
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
8 Dec 2020, 22:47 (Ref:4021650) | #639 | ||
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,446
|
We have a huge variety of racing up here, from club via BTCC to GTs and similar. A lot of engines and categories are really good, and sound fine. Sure, a V8 is the operatic bass of the lot, but a 2ltr 4-pot is not intrinsically a bad thing.
Where I do twitch is the suggestion of TCR which I found exceedingly dull live, and little better on tv in WTCR guise. Oddly, they were more interesting as part of the Silverstone 24hr field where they ran solidly and quickly throughout. As a replacement for the current Supercar formula they don't seem to me to be a feasible suggestion. |
||
__________________
Bill Bryson: It is no longer permitted to be stupid and slow. You must choose one or the other. |
9 Dec 2020, 00:01 (Ref:4021660) | #640 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
|
Quote:
In no particular order to choose some random examples there is: Ford - If you have a look at the UK range of hybrids they list Fiesta, Focus, Puma, Kuga, Mondeo and even the Transit. Ofcourse there is the Mach E Mustang as well. Nissan: They sell the Leaf but Pathfinder is available. The Infiniti range had good hybrids but then Nissan don't do cars over here much anymore. With Renault they are going hard at hybrid/electric and soon. Toyota: Well they do the Prius/Corolla/Camry/whatever the tiddler in the range is called. Sadly they are only pretty mild hybrid. MB: Loads of electric and hybrids - the same can be said of all the Germans makes. Even VW is trying to move on from their emission scandal and not just going electric but aiming for carbon neutral. Volvo/Polestar: They have massive investments in hybrid/electric. To be honest I cant think of a manufacturer that doesn't have plans to go hybrid/electric. Legislation across the globe will make them ex manufacturers unless they do. For what it is worth I cant see why they couldnt put a rudimentary KERS (Mild hybrid if you must) on the cars and give them an extra 50hp for a few (5/10??) seconds a lap. Get some green credentials (Along with the E85 fuel) without having to spend vast sums of money. |
||
|
9 Dec 2020, 00:17 (Ref:4021661) | #641 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 848
|
Quote:
Do you want the cars to be cheaper or green? Can't have both |
||
|
9 Dec 2020, 00:38 (Ref:4021667) | #642 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
I'm aware of all those (& other) examples. My point is that despite various people and govts suggesting that electric is the future and likely to surpass hybrid or make hybrid obsolete, there are new hybrid systems in development that the manufacturers see as being every bit as good, if not better than full electric - making it likely that hybrid is going to stay.
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
9 Dec 2020, 00:45 (Ref:4021669) | #643 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,262
|
Quote:
According to this article the ‘sport’ only started in 1997. Having it both ways again. https://autoaction.com.au/2020/12/09...BfL1yaFl2CVT00 It’s a shame so many fans are caught up in the “everything is always awesome” mentality rather than hold the ‘sport’ to account |
||
|
9 Dec 2020, 00:45 (Ref:4021670) | #644 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
Meanwhile, Airbus has announced hydrogen-powered aircraft concept for 2035 use onwards. I can see plenty of new ideas and tech rolling out over the next few years - might be quite feasible to stick with V8 powerplants but use other fuel sources than is currently the case.
|
||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
9 Dec 2020, 01:08 (Ref:4021673) | #645 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 324
|
Quote:
The low end hybrid systems use an integrated starter/generator and a very small battery. A higher spec level would be more towards a KERS system or MGUK as they now call them. With a transaxle it isnt hard to install a take off/input shaft for a generator and the batteries can be put anywhere. If you work on the assumption that you want cheap hybrid power/green credential that is about as cheap as you are going to get. Money can be saved by not having to design a new front upright every ten minutes. |
||
|
9 Dec 2020, 02:09 (Ref:4021677) | #646 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,345
|
Quote:
What the article actually says is: Quote:
|
||||
__________________
“We’re far from having too much horsepower…[m]y definition of too much horsepower is when all four wheels are spinning in every gear.” ― Mark Donohue |
9 Dec 2020, 07:05 (Ref:4021695) | #647 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Quote:
|
||
|
9 Dec 2020, 07:12 (Ref:4021696) | #648 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 3,211
|
Quote:
|
||
|
9 Dec 2020, 07:16 (Ref:4021698) | #649 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 2,517
|
Quote:
|
|||
__________________
GO Hard or GO Home |
9 Dec 2020, 08:09 (Ref:4021703) | #650 | |||
Subscriber
Veteran
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 12,293
|
Quote:
For comparison, a leased BTCC unit (2.0L, 300bhp+) being £25k per year with the additional hybrid unit being £20.5k per year. |
|||
__________________
"When you’re just too socially awkward for real life, Ten-Tenths welcomes you with open arms. Everyone has me figured out, which makes it super easy for me." |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
LMDh (DPi regulations version 2.0) | NaBUru38 | North American Racing | 422 | 25 Jan 2023 09:34 |
New F1 Team - Panthers seeking to join grid for 2022 | karting | Formula One | 29 | 31 Aug 2019 21:57 |
[WEC] Audi to Return in 2022? | rdjones | ACO Regulated Series | 21 | 28 Sep 2018 20:23 |
Gen IV | B/Mark | IRL Indycar Series | 14 | 22 Jul 2003 04:33 |