Mount Panorama (the track)

[DAVID PATERSON]

Ray, it sounds like you studied my early years of racing. A small 4 cylinder car built from cast offs and wrecks which I ran at the back of the field for years, for about $250 a month. In fact, entry fees were my greatest expense, by a good margin! Slowly i have developed the car and improved my driving to be up in the midfield now.

Mick, I'm in the Historic Racing Car Club, most of whom started racing in their '50s. Some active competitors are over 70. You're never too old.

[MadMick]

G'day David

Appreciate all the info and it gives me some hope .

But I want to drive a V8SC sook sook <g>

[Ray Bell]

There are much more exciting things to drive than the V8 Supercars (I hate that title!) in Historics... have a look at some of the things they nailed together in the old days!

And the good thing is that you can still nail them together, if they are from pre-war parts and assembled in a pre-war fashion... 4.2 litres of Buick Straight eight in a car weighing 15cwt on live axles and crossplies must be fun!

David... I do frequent tips occasionally...

[mtpanorama]

Do you reckon the 1000 would survive if the ALMS cars were to run there? I don't see they could take over that event if Cochrane pulled AVESCO out ... which wouldn't surprise me once he's got that gov't money...

I aske dthe question last night about running more events throughout the year, and what i was told is that there is an actual parlimentary act , called The Mount Panorama act(i think 1989), that only allows for 2 major race meeting per yera to be held on the mount. It has a lot do do with it being a public road and noise restrictions and so on. They didnt really go into it in great depth, only to say that it was better to have they act the way it is now than to try and change it, as it would be very difficult to get it through parliament mainly on environmental grounds (*&^%$ greenies).

So i cant really see the Lemans series ever getting a run on the mount, it would be awsome thoiugh if it did.

I asked about running the 12hour again angd they said that there was no other catagory in australian motorsport that could provide a big enough crowd at the moment to make a race profitable (except for the bikes which they are trying to run next easter, formula extreme)

The gov"t money would be going to council and not to King tony c

[Ray Bell]

I'm sure that the kind of meeting they had at Adelaide at New Years (the format and all) would draw a huge crowd.

I didn't mean, by the way, that I thought Cochrane would get the money. I mean the power kick he'd get from making them spend it for him, then to walk out after they'd made the commitment. Nothing would surprise me with him...

[RaceTime]

There is another aspect to running a race meeting at Bathurst - and that is simply cost. I understand that investigations were done recently to look at running a State Championship meeting at the track to give Club Level people a shot at the track.

The cost very very quickly ballooned out so much it has been scrapped - and this was just the cost of hiring the bitumen, each ROOM that needed to be opened - IOW the current caretakers wanted every single cent they could possibly get from it.

Think the impression I got was greed

[Crash Test]

Re: Bathurst State Championship meeting- you'd have to get the pits opened, that'll cost you, then you have to get the officials up there, then you have to feed the officials....then you have to get the spectators, which sadly wouldn't happen. But then again, thye do run a number of hillclimbs and sprints up that at various stages of the year.

Re: You want to race on the cheap? Go out to Archerfield Speedway, for less that $500 you have yourself a Sigma, ready to roll for the whole season, heck, you can even split the cost with your co-driver! The cost of a HQ- the car that won last years QLD Championship was recently scooped up for $2000....bargain.

Saloon Cars- Ray- Robert must be doing it on the cheap! Some of those things cost more like $30,000! Then again, they provide some fantastic action, and will be a very big thing by the start of next season. There is some Saloon Car stuff on at http://www.qrda.asn.au - more to come very shortly.

[RaceTime]

Crash, as I understand it - the costs for Bathurst along these lines:

Pit Lane - $$$, Oh you want race control - $$$. What you want the secretaries office as wel? $$$. Oh and you need timing - OK $$$. Hmmm scrutineering bay, sure $$$. Commentary rooms - yes we can provide those keys $$$

Every room appears to have a cost attached to it - unlike most race tracks - you hire the venue, you get the infrastructure - apparently not so with Mt Panorama.

[Crash Test]

And now in MN today their grand plan is revealed.... Superbikes and Sports Cars, with them possibly bypassing the top of the mountain, by making the cars turn left at Griffins and through the winery. Much like the Bugati circuit at Le Mans.

What do you think of that? I think it will cut down on the number of drunken louts on top of the mountian

[Ray Bell]

No, they'll either still be there to camp, or they'll simply migrate...

So this is where the intelligence lies? Take away the best part of the circuit and add to your problems by requiring spectator areas where none were needed before? Adding enormously to the maintenance costs of the joint... what brains!

Hang on, Griffins, that's pretty much the top of the Mountain anyway, isn't that where the Reid Park gate is? Don't you mean Tomlins'?

[mtpanorama]

And now in MN today their grand plan is revealed.... Superbikes and Sports Cars, with them possibly bypassing the top of the mountain, by making the cars turn left at Griffins and through the winery. Much like the Bugati circuit at Le Mans.

Well according to the people in charge of the mount this shortened version of the mount will never go ahaed.

The question was asked at hte meeting about the possibility of a short circuit to run the gikes on and to use for club days and there was a resounding NO to this prospect. Apparently it will cost the council more to build this short circuit than it willl to construct all new pit garages.
One of the main reasons for also not wanting to do this track is they didnt want to take away the atmosphere and the prestige of Mount Panorama by making it into a short circuit as well.

If they decide they want to run sportscars up there that will mean they either drop the V8 supercars (cant see that happening) or run them on the same weekend as the V8s as they are only allowed to hold 2 major race meetings a year on Mount Panorama. And they are detirmined to get the bikes back at easter. According too a survey that they commisioned the bike crowd spend nearly twice as much money in town than the V8 crowd, and do less damage

[Ray Bell]

Why not run the bikes and Sports Cars together at Easter then? There are four days of holiday, and it was done this way in the times of our youth...

[racer69]

Thats a good idea. Have the world superbikes on the sunday and either run the Sportscars on the sunday or if they can't get enough lighting then run it on the easter monday. Can't say i agree with these track modifications. It was fine for the bikes at Easter in 2000, and isn't the magic of bathurst ( now the proper conrod staright is gone ) the top of the mountain, which wouldn't be there if the proposal goes through.

[elephino]

Griffins Bend is the right hand corner at the top of Mountain Straight. Usually called by the sponsor name only, unlike the rest of the circuit which is sponsor name then corner name.

A short circuit of Bathurst would never work. Just wouldn't be the same. Like trying to run a V8Supercar around Oran Park North (which is a figure of eight using the bridge).

[Ray Bell]

Corner names at Bathurst are:

Hell, first left after the start, end of Pit Straight and leading into Mountain Straight.

Tomlins' or Quarry Bend, the right at the end of Mountain Straight, known for a long time as XL Bend.

The Cutting.. no need to describe this. Then the cars (or bikes0 climb Griffin Mount to the Reid Park Gates, swoop through past Sulman Park (a latter-day name) to McPhillamy Park, face the Skyline and drop through the Esses to The Dipper, with the last tight bend being Forrest's Elbow leading onto Conrod Straight.

A faux pas by Bill Murray in the forties led to the Pit Corner being popularly named Murray's Corner at that time, this being where the cars choose between darting off towards Bathurst or staying on the circuit and turning into Pit Straight again.

My idea would see untimed practice for bikes and cars on Thursday, then bike qualifying on Friday with night acclimatisation for cars Friday night, then Saturday would be the bike races.

Sunday would be for the cars to race, with an event for Sports Cars that would go well into the night. Monday would be to sweep up the drunks.

[Crash Test]

Pop quiz Ray- who was Forrest's Elbow named after? And also, whose conrod gave Conrod Straight it's name?

[DAVID PATERSON]

Ray, I'm with Elephino, for some time now the old XL bend has been called Griffin's bend.

Crash, Forrest was a motorcycle racer who came off approaching the elbow and slid along the roadway, grinding off his elbow cap in the process. It hurts just thinking about it.

[Crash Test]

I'm with David and Elephino on Griffins Bend, but Ray is also right, as I distinctly remember a piece of wall on top of the mountain wearing the red lettering of Griffins something or rather..

[Daisy the cow]

MADMICK, are you older than Paul Newman (no, not Sam)? Coz he's been racing Le Mans through his sixties and I think still races now. I read a great article where he tells of the excitement of driving a Ford Mustang at over 300 kmh down Mulsanne straight in the pitch black French night, and trying to spot the braking makers through the car shaking the windscreen and dash so much.

Man if you're still younger than Paul Nemwan, get your butt out there. I'll be cheerin you on at Malalla!

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by DAVID PATERSON
Ray, I'm with Elephino, for some time now the old XL bend has been called Griffin's bend.

Does calling a 48/215 Holden an 'FX' make it so? No way! The FX tag was never applied until well after the car was out of production simply as a means of distinguishing it from the FJ and because people didn't know the truth about the model designations Holden was using.

So if you want to call Quarry or Tomlins Bend Griffins, then you will be doing this same thing! I know the 'Tomlins' desgnation is very rarely used, but it was what the residents of Bathurst in the forties called it. Quarry is probably more accurate.

I never heard any mention of 'Griffin' until I was at the motorcycle meeting about 1965. Those bike commentators used the name all the time, like they knew what it meant, and so does John Medley in his book about the circuit, and he's been a regular spectator at Bathurst since about 1950.

He describes the climb out of The Cutting as Griffin's Mount. Strangely, this runs past a quarry...

So I feel obliged to educate you young chaps (and girls?) about this issue. Into the eighties and nineties, commentators have typically become younger and younger, and more ambitious and all-knowing and devoid of historical knowledge.

So where did I get the Tomlins name from? Mike Kable, Bathurst born and bred, resided there well into the fifties and went to race meetings from the very first. He would have known who 'Tomlins' was, and I will suggest it was the resident owning the land on the outside of the bend, the one whose entry gate is right there.

Crash, Forrest was a motorcycle racer who came off approaching the elbow and slid along the roadway, grinding off his elbow cap in the process. It hurts just thinking about it.

Yes, Jack Forrest, a very well known rider of the early years at the circuit.

Conrod Straight was named much later than you would think. I think it was about 1951, but I'm not sure whose conrod flew out the side to be immortalised. My feeling is it was that of a Maserati, but it may have been Frank Kleinig's Hudson. I will endeavour to find out...

[Crash Test]

Ray: I've read it in that Bathurst: The Craddle of something or rather.... sadly I only had it out on loan from the library, but I would so like to own that book...

[Ray Bell]

Yes, Bathurst - the Cradle of Australian Motor Racing... I keep it by the computer along with the AGP book. Well worth the $90...

[Crash Test]

One book that is in every bookstore (but is still a bit pricey) is that one on the history of Australian Motorcycle racing, it looks like pretty good stuff...

Back to Bathurst- how brilliant was the original goat track of a Conrod Straight? Wowsers..it had more bends than the top of the mountain. Also, you've got to smirk at them painting a line down the middle of the track to divide the slow and the fast cars, they should bring that one back

[Ray Bell]

There is just so much in the book, the history of how it came into being, the 800+ photos, all the results of all the practice sessions and all the races from 1938 to 1973, just fantastic.... and I believe there are very few left.