2004 V8 Race Formats - Page 2

**GTRMagic** · 10 Dec 2003, 00:33 (Ref:807921)

The teams know the rules, if they short fuel it to save a few seconds in the pits, and dont get enough motion lotion aboard to finish the race, then the team has messed up... and the only way to punish them is exclusion.

This remains a team sport... if any of the team stuffs up, it affects the result, as it should do.

Evomike · 10 Dec 2003, 00:43 (Ref:807927)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
The teams know the rules, if they short fuel it to save a few seconds in the pits, and dont get enough motion lotion aboard to finish the race, then the team has messed up... and the only way to punish them is exclusion.

This remains a team sport... if any of the team stuffs up, it affects the result, as it should do.

Couldn't disagree more, exclusion is too harsh. The extra pitstop alone would not justify short fuelling the car if it was deliberate. If you blow a tyre and come into replace it do you get penalised for an extra tyre stop? No, Why not? Same principle (I am not talking about enduros here). Knowing the rules is no excuse for bad rules in the first place. This season has been insane, talking to a team manager recently he was at his wits end with checking and rechecking the rules(as they change) to make sure they don't incur stupid penalties and fines. and yes thye did get excluded for an extra refuel.

Evomike · 10 Dec 2003, 00:50 (Ref:807933)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
The teams know the rules, if they short fuel it to save a few seconds in the pits, and dont get enough motion lotion aboard to finish the race, then the team has messed up... and the only way to punish them is exclusion.

This remains a team sport... if any of the team stuffs up, it affects the result, as it should do.

It could also be argued that the officials know the rules but don't get it right on occasion

But who suffers there? The team, not the person that makes the mistake. If the team should suffer as it is a team event, surely an official who makes a bad call should suffer, after all it is a team effort to put the event on. Instead the people who pay all the money to be there (i.e the teams) (Yes I know there is some prize money)have to pay through fines and potential lost revenue from sponsors as the result of an officials bad call. Reduce the number of anal rules that need to be enforced and see a drop in the number of stupid mistakes made by officials. Well thats my humble opinion anyway.

**GTRMagic** · 10 Dec 2003, 00:51 (Ref:807934)

Tyre failures are force majeure, nothing anyone can do to cure a blowout. The old Finilec wont cure a popped Dunlop unfortunately....

These teams are pro outfits, they should know how much juice their cars need to run for however many laps they need to run. If they stuff up that calculation, or short fuel it for expediency to try and beat someone else, and the car runs out of juice, or needs an extra stop, their attempted "shortcut" is outside the rules....

You could let them into the race again, but what would stop SHRT running a 3 or 4 stop strategy if they could do it without penalty to shortfuel the car for pace maintenance if it was possible to do so and get an advantage in track position? The pitlanes are not sufficiently good enough at the rounds the series goes to at the moment to allow open slather for pitstops....

The rules certainly do change from meeting to meeting in subtle ways, including qualifying percentages, the pitstop allowances, being allowed to pit under the safety car etc etc... most of the big end of town have statistical modelling to estimate the time lost for the various options thru the race... its the smaller guys who try to do the same thing based on experience not numbers that generally lose out...

Evomike · 10 Dec 2003, 01:01 (Ref:807938)

Blatant flouting of the rules could be penalised, where problems have occured ie modelling was out, or car starts to run a little richer during the race, or the required equipment fails or does not function right should not be penalised for this. I have no issue where a rule is broken a team being penalised, but that should be a fair penalty reflective of the error or breach. If you make a mistake and punt someone off and end their race, I would have thought should receive a harsher penalty than accidentally short fuelling, but usually this is not the case.

Driver · 10 Dec 2003, 02:08 (Ref:807956)

I agree Evo, it is too harsh to exclude if you have to refuel. Pitting for fuel a second time will always take longer than saving a couple of seconds at one pitstop.

Didn't someone earlier this year pit for fuel because a sensor was faulty and get excluded? That is wrong IMHO.

rustyinsthoz · 10 Dec 2003, 05:55 (Ref:808035)

I like the idea of pit stops . I just don't like compulsory part of it . Specially 300 km races , they should be able to pit when they want . Also they should be able to refuel and change tires at the same time . Also they should allow more tyres to be allocated to a car at each round . At present most races seem to be as much about saving tyres than it is about racing .

**GTRMagic** · 10 Dec 2003, 06:06 (Ref:808040)

Why shouldnt the driver be punished if the team stuffs up, he takes advantage when they do something good, why not if they do something bad?

It is a team sport, not an individual pursuit!

Onlooker · 10 Dec 2003, 06:31 (Ref:808047)

Here's a senerio.
Race is 100 laps long,pit window opens between laps 25 and 75.Safety car comes out on lap 22,it is a big smash so evey one prepares to dive in as soon as the pit lane is open lap 23 in comes Morris,running 12th and fills the car to the brim,rejoins with what is now enough fuel to get to the end,he is now at the end of the line and when the pit lane opens he comes in with the rest of them and puts on tyres like everyone else,he is still ahead of all the 2nds cars in the multicar teams and even concedes a few places at the next restat but as he is towards the back he is held up and uses his tyres consevitavly allowing thers in front to open the holes for him ,when every one comes in for fuel and say lap 50 he only needs to engage the fuel connection and pull it out and he has forfilled his refueling stop obligations gaining some 20 seconds on the cars that were enjoying a 15 second lead overhim ,wow he is now first out of pitlane and efffectively now in the lead of the race and has created a result that otherwise would not have been his for the taking by out smarting the rest of the field.This would cause all and sundry to do it at the next race.

**GTRMagic** · 10 Dec 2003, 06:45 (Ref:808055)

My point exactly.... the refuelling stop in the window would be a pseudostop, to fulfil the requirement but add no value.... or time the process. As long as the lapping with the full tank was quicker than the time to refill in the pseudostop

Onlooker · 10 Dec 2003, 06:50 (Ref:808061)

You can hardly pass anymore and so you can oonly go as fast as the car in front anyway,chances are in the time between the first and second stop the bulk of the field would be within 20 seconds of you anyway

**GTRMagic** · 10 Dec 2003, 06:51 (Ref:808064)

Maybe they need to have a 'control' pit crew? They can change the tyres on any car in the field, picked by chooklotto?

Evomike · 10 Dec 2003, 19:14 (Ref:808590)

Quote:

Originally posted by GTRMagic
Why shouldnt the driver be punished if the team stuffs up, he takes advantage when they do something good, why not if they do something bad?

It is a team sport, not an individual pursuit!

You may have misunderstood me, I am not saying there shouldn't be a penalty I am saying the penalty is too harsh in the grand scheme of things.

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