HRDC Announces "MGB50"

[terence]

Hmmm,something positive then.

[zefarelly]

I stoped using JE pistons ages ago, they sold outand the ring quality dropped right off. CP/Carillo are far better, you get all the added machining features for the same price (MGB pots are nigh on identical to Ford)

block prep does indeed take time, and needs to be accurate on tractor engines agree re £1500 for a proven decent head. still don't get the 100% mark up though, there's only 6k worth of bits there, and thats paying top whack.

[terence]

Over the years we have tried just about every piston/rod combination available Zef. JE parts are available off the shelf,pistons come pre machined to Mass's own spec,only piston failure ever suffered was four years ago,using Omega!To be fair,the engine was just a little warm though.
Take into account the dummy build,machining,block prep and painting,final assembly and of course the running in/set up on the dyno for final costing out.

[Al Weyman]

Have you tried JE's sister company? SRP (Sportsman Racing Pistons) I think they are called. One of my engines was orginally built with JE's (not by me) and when it let go due to incorrect sump selection (very professional) I didnt want to go to the expense of the JE's so did some research and the SRP's were available in exactly the same weight and piston heights etc, but at a much lower price. And there was something else I discovered, for our type of racing the SRP were recommended by the parent company over the JE's because of the alloy they were made of. According to them the JE's really are for high end long distance stuff like F1 and NASCAR and Le Mans where the engines would be torn down and pistons replaced after usually one race as the alloy was not suitable for frequent heat cylcles where as the alloy used on the SRP was and much better for what we want. So far they have proved very reliable.

[zefarelly]

Terry, If your including manifolds, carb, dyno etc etc I can start to see, still a lot though.

funny you say off the shelf, now I have a key to the door I can get CP's custom made in 3 weeks and delivered in 3 days, any bore/height and details, for Twinks and crossflow as well, they really are a work of art. Its always a shame to bolt the nicest bits inside an iron/tin box!

[terence]

I agree,but all the best bits are inside Zef,one reason hooky cars are such a nightmare for scrutineers.
As for JE Pistons,dont think there has ever been one 'let go' from any Mass built engine,and they are not replaced after each enduro race.

[Al Weyman]

Thats what I read but they were referring to V8 stuff in fact SRP's seem to only be available for Ford and Chevy V8's and V6's and some Hondas so irrelevant.

[rogerwills]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

£12k for an MGB engine? how?

Do you know what a current spec Mini engine costs?

[Tim Falce]

Would these £12K+ engines be the same spec as they were pre 66?

[terence]

But of course,its because of how rare the parts are that makes them so expensive Tim.http://tentenths.com/forum/images/icons/icon25.gif

[Yorkie 'S']

Originally Posted by rogerwills

Do you know what a current spec Mini engine costs?

Depends how fast you want to go

[zefarelly]

quite, I built an engine to prove/disprove a few things and managed to do it for about 6k using very good quality parts where needed, but, for example, not a carlos fandango 2k crank( not necessary IMO) It took a hell of a lot of time, which I haven't costed . . .but I managed to establish how a 'top engine builder got 161 BHP from a '1650cc' Ford precrossflow engine (receipts for 14k+) mine made 163bhp on pump unleaded and without a hooky head casting.

strictly from a business point of view, the question is how one values/prices development time. lowtit Twinks are like lego now, they're all much of a muchness and you can buy it all off the shelf, new, all a builder needs do is know what to buy and how to time the cams ( if he's chosen the right profiles)

Roger, I know A series engines can and do cost more, 14k I heard, (gearbox extra) your paying for the tuning development, and then an additional premium for them to actually work after the dyno runs finished . . .been there done that, made phenomenal power, for 3 laps! I understand, but didn't think B's where in the same kind of arms race, although they are inherently crap so need attention to stop them falling apart!

BOT, I'm sure the HRDC ethos will be sensible, not 12k engines!

[terence]

Ha ha,dont be too sure Zef.

[simon drabble]

I find it uncomfortable territory when I agree with Terry!! However I totally agree - when you have effectively one make racing assume that over time development will become ever more involved - look at Carol's U2TC, the front running times would leave Jim Clark as an also ran!

[zefarelly]

I stand corrected Terry, I guess TC's, Alfa twinks, A and B series, as well as the healey 6's are all in the same boat, the V8's are on another level again.

BMW 4 pots in recent years as well, I know they're in sports racers, and clearly good engines, buts its amazing given there was only 1 in the land racing in HRSR ten year ago.

LC's made 145BHP in '64. its well documented.

[simon drabble]

my twin cam in my Merlyn puts out 162 bhp - downside is that I am incompetitive, upside is that I have an excuse for being slow!!!

[terence]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I stand corrected Terry, I guess TC's, Alfa twinks, A and B series, as well as the healey 6's are all in the same boat, the V8's are on another level again.

BMW 4 pots in recent years as well, I know they're in sports racers, and clearly good engines, buts its amazing given there was only 1 in the land racing in HRSR ten year ago.

LC's made 145BHP in '64. its well documented.

Funny thing with the BMW 4 pot,such a demand that the factory started casting new heads,not much that cannot be bought.Big shock on a 2002 I did recently was the Drive Flange from the ZF Box,£400!!!!!!!Apparently one of the only things BMW don't reproduce yet.

LCs in Jack Sears hey days were only just modified,I remember taking his 250 GTO back and driving into the collection,Sir John Whitmores LC was there in storage so had a look around it,only visible difference was a braided fuel hose running along the right inner front wing and sod all else! 40bhp over factory readings wasn't a huge gain,little bit of head work/cams would have gotten that.
Alfas didn't start going so well until someone had the head casting changed to a superior inlet port layout[I have a lovely photo going past Mark Hales going in to Stavelot in the 6hr one year]Following spring at Dijon couldn't stay with Mark using Neil Howe's TR4![Obviously something had changed over winter!]
162 Simon? is that at the wheels?

[Al Weyman]

All a bit stupid really if you ask me. Dunno why we all bother but there you go.

[zefarelly]

post of the day Al!

[simon drabble]

162 was on the bench - the engine has been built for longevity rather than peak performance, I have no illusions of winning but every intention of finishing!

[zefarelly]

I think cars then did, it was as good for sales as winning, lots and lots of cars now don't, the analogy is irrelevant.

personally, I've learn't and proven a few things to myself, now going to settle for reliability as I can't afford to be winning.

[terence]

Why settle for lap records and not the chequered flag?

[Al Weyman]

wise words guys.

[zefarelly]

trouble is its addictive!

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

All a bit stupid really if you ask me. Dunno why we all bother but there you go.

I can't for the life of me understand why so many people, otherwise seemingly sane, are so in thrall to what is basically a cramped two-door 1950s Morris Oxford. Remember that the car is contemporaneous to a Lotus Elan, but with a bigger engine.

Terrible old bangers....