[Official] Hungarian Grand Prix 2016: Grand Prix Weekend Thread

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Jenson reported that the brake pedal went to the floor. His team replied with a message, clearly designed for safety, that the hydraulic pressure had dropped. Jenson was penalised for driver coaching on the radio.

That isn't driver coaching. That won't help jenson drive faster. All that is was the team talking about a very clear safety issue and were penalised for it. But don't worry, the Halo(TM) is coming so that'll make it ok again.

McLaren should appeal that penalty. How can warning a driver about an issue like hydraulic pressure be regarded as coaching? Surely warning the driver is better than having them carry on obliviously and the car grind to halt in the middle of the track?

[Akrapovic]

Should appeal it but it was a drive through so the damage is done.

Engineer just told Jenson to retire the car now. Expecting a penalty for that too - it's more coaching based then the previous message. What an utterly ridiculous situation the sport finds itself in.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Should appeal it but it was a drive through so the damage is done.

Engineer just told Jenson to retire the car now. Expecting a penalty for that too - it's more coaching based then the previous message. What an utterly ridiculous situation the sport finds itself in.

Fair enough or unfair enough.

There are so many penalties in F1 now and it detracts from the sport.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Congrats to Lewis, a very commanding performance.

[Richard C]

Button situation is ridiculous.


New nickname for the new wonder boy...

"Two move Max"

Richard

[Tja]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

McLaren should appeal that penalty. How can warning a driver about an issue like hydraulic pressure be regarded as coaching? Surely warning the driver is better than having them carry on obliviously and the car grind to halt in the middle of the track?

He was penalised for the instruction not to change gear when they told him about dropping hydraulic pressure.

And now, Kai Ebel

[Akrapovic]

That's not driver coaching. That's reliability and safety. Especially since the braking systems on the car rely on that and are super complicated. Are the drivers expected to have Engineering Degrees and have studied the systems? Open University are about to get about 20 new applications.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tja

He was penalised for the instruction not to change gear when they told him about dropping hydraulic pressure.

And now, Kai Ebel

That's not coaching, that's precautionary.

[dsg]

Are they investigating the Verstappen/Raikkonen collision?

[Tja]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

That's not driver coaching. That's reliability and safety. Especially since the braking systems on the car rely on that and are super complicated. Are the drivers expected to have Engineering Degrees and have studied the systems? Open University are about to get about 20 new applications.

I don't like the rule at all, but that's what he was penalised for.
In the end this had to be penalised when you compare it to Rosberg two weeks ago, I don't see a major difference between a driver being told to shift through sixth gear and not to shift at all.

[Akrapovic]

Rosberg had a gearbox issue. Button had a hydraulic issue. Whilst the message he was given involved the gearbox, it was effecting the brakes too. Since the rule does allow messages for safety's sake, I'd say that the messages are quite different since the issue Button had was effecting multiple systems. The circumstances were not the same.

Basically, you need to be an engineer on the car to know whether or not that was safety driven. A steward in an office is not qualified to judge it. But F1 is now in a state of penalise everything and deal with the fall out later.

[Tja]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Rosberg had a gearbox issue. Button had a hydraulic issue. Whilst the message he was given involved the gearbox, it was effecting the brakes too. Since the rule does allow messages for safety's sake, I'd say that the messages are quite different since the issue Button had was effecting multiple systems. The circumstances were not the same.

Basically, you need to be an engineer on the car to know whether or not that was safety driven. A steward in an office is not qualified to judge it. But F1 is now in a state of penalise everything and deal with the fall out later.

A mechanical failure can always cause issues. A gearbox can explode, lock the driven wheels and what not. If Rosberg stops on track, the car has to be moved etc. It's all a safety issue of some sort, so just get rid of that silly rule again.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Tja

A mechanical failure can always cause issues. A gearbox can explode, lock the driven wheels and what not. If Rosberg stops on track, the car has to be moved etc. It's all a safety issue of some sort, so just get rid of that silly rule again.

That's why the McLaren pitwall, told Button not to shift gear. You don't want the car stopping on the track, with all the safety issues that can cause. It seems like the stewards didn't take this into consideration.

[chillibowl]

Just my opinion, but can't say I find much wrong with MV's defence on Kimi.

[sparkione]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

That's why the McLaren pitwall, told Button not to shift gear. You don't want the car stopping on the track, with all the safety issues that can cause. It seems like the stewards didn't take this into consideration.

Far less easy to understand is the team's instruction to him to stay out there when he was clearly – at the very least – uncompetitive (with no brakes!) and possibly a danger to himself and all around him.

Jenson's post-race interview made clear his frustration with the team. We don't know all the facts, of course, but it boils down once again to the beyond-absurd situation F1 currently finds itself in re. regs and radio coms.

His drive-through penalty plumbed new depths of eye-swivelling stupidity on the part of of the morons who currently run this 'sport'...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by sparkione

Far less easy to understand is the team's instruction to him to stay out there when he was clearly – at the very least – uncompetitive (with no brakes!) and possibly a danger to himself and all around him.

Jenson's post-race interview made clear his frustration with the team. We don't know all the facts, of course, but it boils down once again to the beyond-absurd situation F1 currently finds itself in re. regs and radio coms.

His drive-through penalty plumbed new depths of eye-swivelling stupidity on the part of of the morons who currently run this 'sport'...

Yes but, how could he have safely come into the pits & stopped at his pit box WITHOUT ANY BRAKES?

[gert]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Should appeal it but it was a drive through so the damage is done.

Engineer just told Jenson to retire the car now. Expecting a penalty for that too - it's more coaching based then the previous message. What an utterly ridiculous situation the sport finds itself in.

I agree. Is this the most stupid penalty ever given? If not, it definitely comes close.

[gert]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

Button situation is ridiculous.


New nickname for the new wonder boy...

"Two move Max"

Richard

Yeah, that was some unclean defense.
I hope he gets penalized for it sooner than later.

I don't like penalties, but I think Max needs one to learn from it.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Just my opinion, but can't say I find much wrong with MV's defence on Kimi.

Likewise. I didn't see it as blatant as some seem to have. Perhaps that's because I was willing him to stay ahead too much.... The kid's pretty much the only thing I'm watching F1 for right now.

[wolfhound]

On the Button brake issue he said at a post race interview that it was a sensor issue that caused the problem and after the team told him to make some adjustments ( we did not hear that radio message on TV) he was able to continue.
It was for that reason he was given the penalty.

To solve this radio mess we need to get Maldonado back as he would surely end up parking his car in a dangerous position after a car failure that could have been solved by a radio message. The resulting chaos would lead to uproar from all sides.

[velly4]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Likewise. I didn't see it as blatant as some seem to have. Perhaps that's because I was willing him to stay ahead too much.... The kid's pretty much the only thing I'm watching F1 for right now.

How is it not blatant when he drives down the middle of the road and moves right when he sees kimi go right.
Kimi changes and goes left and Max had a little flick to the left. That is enough to make kimi react and cause the collision.
Remember the speed all this happens where you are basically relying on reflexes at that point of commitment.

The rule is clear cut, one move only. Max done it in Canada, again in Silverstone and in Hungary. It's only a matter of time before this causes a massive shunt.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by gert

Yeah, that was some unclean defense.
I hope he gets penalized for it sooner than later.

I don't like penalties, but I think Max needs one to learn from it.

Until there are repercussions he will continue. And I don't blame him as it is a style that is (so far) serving him well! I think he is very talented and can do well and be a future champion without the questionable blocking tactics.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by sparkione

Far less easy to understand is the team's instruction to him to stay out there when he was clearly – at the very least – uncompetitive (with no brakes!) and possibly a danger to himself and all around him.

Jenson's post-race interview made clear his frustration with the team. We don't know all the facts, of course, but it boils down once again to the beyond-absurd situation F1 currently finds itself in re. regs and radio coms.

His drive-through penalty plumbed new depths of eye-swivelling stupidity on the part of of the morons who currently run this 'sport'...

If I remember rightly, Button drove off the racing line and coasted.

[Razzzor]

Originally Posted by velly4

The rule is clear cut, one move only. Max done it in Canada, again in Silverstone and in Hungary. It's only a matter of time before this causes a massive shunt.

Yep. Perhaps no penalty for Hungary but the next time he has a couple of risky blocks like this I think he should get a penalty.

He's young, a few more years racing in the juniors probably would have taught him that he can't keep changing lines to block like this. He's lucky it was against a Kimi and not an idiot, because if he did that in GP3, most drivers in that field would have hit him, and he'd soon learn not to do manoeuvres like that if he wants to not wreck.

A couple of collisions or penalties and he might get the idea, but he'll probably be one of those drivers that's very hard to overtake throughout his career (like Schumacher).

[FAS33]

Max Crashtappen back at it again with the blocking.