2016 World Rally Championship

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

I do agree that road positioning is to thank for that though and, despite the mixture of names, Ogier is still well clear in the standings at the moment.

Originally Posted by bobec

To me it just seems like the typical modern motorsports gimmick solution. It does make it a lot more unpredictable, but I never felt happy with punishing the fastest drivers. Just feels a bit artificial.

But it's only the same system that's applied at other levels of rallying - entries are seeded so the quicker crews run first. Ok - so at club level this is largely done so you don't get a WRC stuck behind a 1 litre Micra on a narrow section with nowhere to pass but there must still be a slight handicap being first on the road.

[chunder]

BTRDA used to run the 1400's first on the road to allow them to run on clean stages, as the 4wd cars cut it up too much. Numbers were huge, and the cars were amazing too.

As soon as they stopped doing it, numbers dropped.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by chunder

BTRDA used to run the 1400's first on the road to allow them to run on clean stages, as the 4wd cars cut it up too much. Numbers were huge, and the cars were amazing too.

As soon as they stopped doing it, numbers dropped.

That was done for 'Safety reasons' following spectator 'issues'. They decided to seed cars in speed/ performance. So, Historic, 1400's/1000's aren't seeded separately as before. It may have been well meant, but I think it was a mistake.

[TzeiTzei]

WRC has been really good this year. It's a bit unfortunate that it doesn't get that much publicity. In Finland WRC has taken the pay tv route and kind of disappeared from the main stream. Rally Finland is of course a big thing but outside of that not that many people know what is going on in WRC.

Btw. if we exclude the first two rallies that Ogier won, the WDC looks like this:
1. Ogier 87
2. Latvala 68
3. Mikkelsen 59
4. Paddon 54
5. Sordo 50
6. Neuville 46
7. Tänak 36
8. Östberg 35

So Ogier still keeps on collecting points, while others have trouble finishing consistently.

[S griffin]

I had a dream the other night that Ogier won the title, despite still only having two wins. And that could actually happen, although he's due a DNF and that could blow the whole thing wide open.

That said, this has been the best season for a while, with our now sixth different winner and shows how good the competition it is. A far cry from the seasons between 06-09 when we got three winners per season. True Ogier is yet to be caught, but he's not dominating and I care more about the individual rallies than the whole championship.

Poland really delivered a great rally, shame for Tanak, but good to see the other competitors congratulating him for a great performance

[chunder]

It is rather manufactured though

Anyone who thinks Ogier hasn't got a few seconds a stage on most of them is deluded really.

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by chunder

It is rather manufactured though





Anyone who thinks Ogier hasn't got a few seconds a stage on most of them is deluded really.

Until they start driving virtual rallies it will be a bit manufactured. Always has been, always will be. Gotta run the stages in some order.

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by S griffin

True Ogier is yet to be caught, but he's not dominating and I care more about the individual rallies than the whole championship.

Yep, this is exactly how I see it as well. The overall title winner isn't a surprise, but the individual events are proving interesting.

[Alex Langheck]

Originally Posted by chunder

It is rather manufactured though

Anyone who thinks Ogier hasn't got a few seconds a stage on most of them is deluded really.

True, it looks competitive, but it's 'manufactured' by making Ogier running first on the road for 2 days.
Sadly, its not having any effect on creating any more interest in the WRC - is it? 5/6 different winners...the most since about 2001; but still very few people are bothered.

The Formula E Title decider garnered more interest than WRC Poland.

[TzeiTzei]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

True, it looks competitive, but it's 'manufactured' by making Ogier running first on the road for 2 days.
Sadly, its not having any effect on creating any more interest in the WRC - is it? 5/6 different winners...the most since about 2001; but still very few people are bothered.

The Formula E Title decider garnered more interest than WRC Poland.

I think it needs time. WRC has been down for quite a long time now and most people probably won't immediately realise that things are getting more interesting.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

True, it looks competitive, but it's 'manufactured' by making Ogier running first on the road for 2 days.

I don't see a problem with the championship leader running first on the road - you have to have a consistent and fair way of determining the running order. Championship order is by far the easiest to determine - what other possible system could be used that's not open to cries of favouritism? It's no worse a system than adding success ballast in touring cars for example.

[chunder]

it is shambolic on gravel rallies thoughy and there was a perfectly decnet system in place before that has been dumped.

It is not ALWAYS the case that running lower down the order gets you the best stages, if it rains it can be a massive downgrade, but surely that is a far bgetter system than constantly penalising the bloke who is a class above the rest of them, and making the events pure running oroder lotteries.

If you need to do this kind of nonsense to make WRC better, then the thing has failed completely.

i dont like Ogier any more than the next man, but he does not deserve to be treated like a fool, and basiclaly handicapped just because he is dominant

Or are they scared he might beat Loebs records?

[Alex Langheck]

Qualifying was the least worse solution - with one slight problem; Ogier kept winning. Making him run first for the 1st day still didn't prove to be a solution - so they came up with the current mess.
The time he loses on the first 2 days can't be regained on the Sunday as the mileage is pitifully small.
In the previous eras the running order wasn't as much an issue as events were far harder, and longer....

Something is wrong when you know Ogier can't win an event/ events because he's handicapped by running order.
Sadly, too many in the WRC are deluded and think this is good because we now have different winners.... Yet the WRC is as invisible as ever.

[cg7aa]

It's the big one this weekend. The Grand Prix of Finland. I used to get so excited about this event in my younger days. I remember Burns' early charge to the front in the red-livered 206 in the early noughties before an awkward landing off a jump put paid to any chances. To be leading a field with the depth of quality back then was something.

Anyway, Tanak for the win? It looks like the road-sweeping issue is provoking some strong sentiments on here. I didn't think I would ever feel a little sorry for Ogier. It can't be nice feeling like an entire governing body is against you. Still, road position advantage or not, Tanak's drive in Poland was gutsy and committed, he was on the rugged limit and beyond. Kudos to DMACK too.

[tbtstt]

Despite the squabble about running order, Finland still excites me. I have wanted to go for a number of years, but never made it out there. The arrival of the new generation of cars next year is really making me think I should get my finger out and plan a trip!

Tanak is certainly one to watch. I hope to see Meeke on the podium as well.

[tbtstt]

Was absolutely glued to the app over the weekend. Fantastic result for both Meeke and Breen. Felt bad for Tanak as he seems to have really upped his pace. Still, it's great to finally see someone in a factory seat proving that the Fiesta is a capable car.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Was absolutely glued to the app over the weekend. Fantastic result for both Meeke and Breen. Felt bad for Tanak as he seems to have really upped his pace. Still, it's great to finally see someone in a factory seat proving that the Fiesta is a capable car.

Agreed - Meeke was impressive all weekend (although I suspect VW will moan again about 'one off drivers' winning events). Tanak certainly does seem to have the pace as well - it's certainly made things a bit more interesting having a few drivers that can fight it out rather than just having Ogier clearing off into the distance on every event.

[chunder]

It does make it more interesting briefly for the now, but you can't help feeling it's all a bit false and if it carries on then as a team VW would be well within their rights to disappear to rallycross and who could honestly blame them at the moment.

As a true fan would you suddenly get more interested in the farce that is modern F1 if Williams, Force India and Haas started winning races instead of Mercedes yet were told the reason was that Mercedes had to run on softer tyres than anyone else all the time or with far less fuel? It's a bit of a con, but great for short interest, the blight of the modern world in my eyes. As a part timer you might think great. That is what they are trying to do. Firefighting.

It is utterly false, and is a typically short sighted method at curing the problem instead of actually thinking it out logically.

You might get a driver now sandbagging for a few rallies to gain road position, I mean that used to happen on the odd stage in the 90's but now it might happen for whole rallies, short changing everyone.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

Was absolutely glued to the app over the weekend. Fantastic result for both Meeke and Breen. Felt bad for Tanak as he seems to have really upped his pace. Still, it's great to finally see someone in a factory seat proving that the Fiesta is a capable car.

Even watching it on TV, I could 'feel' the road sweepers had no grip whatsoever! They were on marbles coated with grease and chucked on to ice; must be so frustrating for them. As someone said earlier, the reduced stage mileage of modern rallying means they can't mount much of comeback on the final day.

Still, some fantastic action though! I would love to see the Meeke onbaord cam footage from the second pass of Ouninpohja! I found myself tensing up and involuntarily bracing for a shunt when watching some of the onboards. Christ almighty!

Tanak is really charging, he's a very brave driver. Ok, it didn't work out in the end but it will come and it must be good for M-Sport to know the Fiesta is capable of more (when driven on the rugged edge and beyond by a brave Estonian pairing!). Camili's shunt was horrendous, never nice to watch.

Great result for Meeke and Breen too. The specialist press must love Breen; the man wears his heart on his sleeve and can emote! Neat little tribute to Toivenen too in the highlights package I saw. It's good to see such classy tributes to heroes of the past.

I made it to Finland back in 2007; enjoyed it too even though they were all cruising on the Sunday.

[cg7aa]

Gentlemen, Germany not good enough for ya?

I hope to make it to this rally next year to see the 2017 cars. I like this rally, almost like a circuit race, narrow, fast and quite unforgiving. Lefebvre and Moreau will attest to that, a very close call and never nice to see. All the best to them for their recovery.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by cg7aa

Gentlemen, Germany not good enough for ya?

I hope to make it to this rally next year to see the 2017 cars. I like this rally, almost like a circuit race, narrow, fast and quite unforgiving. Lefebvre and Moreau will attest to that, a very close call and never nice to see. All the best to them for their recovery.

In my defence I was away on holiday

Germany is an event I'd love to take our car out on - as you say it's fast and narrow. Most of the WRC events would be no good for our car but Germany looks like it would be great fun (unless you hit one of those hinklesteins - as Lefebvre found at!).

No real surprise to see Ogier win - there doesn't seem to be a real tarmac specialist at the moment does there? Not like back in the day with Pannizzi being wheeled out for the tarmac events.

[cg7aa]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

... back in the day with Pannizzi being wheeled out for the tarmac events.

Gilles was quite handy on tarmac! He seemed to exist between being very passionate or fiery in terms of his temper. Remember the year there was all that controversy about him having had extra practice prior to Corsica or his doughnuts at the famous bridge in Catalunya?

Anyway, back to the present. Sordo isn't too shabby on tarmac.

[chunder]

The incident about recceing was with his then team mate Delecour, who was as fiery as any driver has ever been.

And incidentally had a huge crash in an F40 didn't he, and was also done for recceing on a pushbike once!

Try rallying against Steve Bannister in Yorkshire, the bloke knows the stages aswell as you might now Indy!!

[thlbtcc]

Corsica this weekend. Was a bit damp last year, seems to be dry this time. A million corners and I find it hard to look past Ogier for a home win.

[Alex Langheck]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report...364.1461591604

Genius......