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Old 24 Dec 2018, 15:39 (Ref:3872264)   #1
Eyebrows
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Looking to rally Volvo 66 - appendixes and homologation papers

Happy Christmas season everyone,

New here and new to historic rallying. I've worked as race support for a few classic and vintage cars in the past but never raced or setup from scratch my own car so looking for advice on all the paperwork and where to start.

I'm about to take ownership of a Volvo 66DL left hand drive. I'd really like to rally it in special stages (anything loose surfaces which is where these cars shine). I was looking at maybe doing a couple of stages of the British historic rally championship and maybe potentially in the future be competitive but that won't be for a while. Are there any other rallies I should be looking at?

Anyway, I was looking at preparing the car, it's the same car as the DAF 66 but under a Volvo badge. The MSA regs for the event say the car must conform to R49 and their homologation. There is one homologation paper for this car however its group 1 (so very few modifications) but it's for the 1.3 litre model, mine is the 1.1 litre. There are also a few more homologation forms for the DAF 66 both 1.1 & 1.3 litres, group 1&2 and with modifications to the engine and other parts. Basically I know very little on how these forms work, what do they do? Can I do any modifications from any form? Is my car even compatible with them as it's technically a slightly different model (the only real differences being the front grill and the engine capacity). Carburettor wise, am I allowed to use any period carb (like a pair of Weber 40s rather than the original single solex?).

Within R49 I have to conform to appendix J, so there comes another question on whether I conform to appendix k or j? I only ask as I've just had light shed on appendix k as a separate category and no idea if it's a better option.

Basically as you can see I'm very confused on the whole matter and would love some help on where to go with it all! Should I possibly look for a different chassis (there's a chance I may be able to get hold of a DAF marathon which the homologation papers would apply to exactly and has more racing history). Or would there be no point doing this?

I would also like to do other events in the future so no idea what to work towards. Whether this is a good starting point or whether I'm better off looking for a 1300 model?

I hope someone can help shed some light on all this for me please. Sorry for long and confused sounding post I'm afraid I am just that - confused where to start!

Merry Christmas all
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Old 24 Dec 2018, 16:41 (Ref:3872274)   #2
Gerard C
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Sorry, it won't fully answer your question, I'd go for the Marathon you've detailed. Or better a 343 with the full R kit (Grp2 i think). Ugly but fast. Bearing in mind that when you drive it you can't see it…
If you're interested in Marathon consider a search with Frenchman Claude Laurent he was a renowned specialist of what we call " la voiture à bretelles" referring to the belt drive. Merry Christmas.
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Old 24 Dec 2018, 16:44 (Ref:3872277)   #3
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Sorry, it won't fully answer your question, I'd go for the Marathon you've detailed. Or better a 343 with the full R kit (Grp2 i think). Ugly but fast. Bearing in mind that when you drive it you can't see it… Merry Christmas.
The marathon is not necessarily a certainty, it's just a slight possibility. Could I ask the reason why please? Would it just be a lot more eligible. It's a shame because they're the same car with different badges on!
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 03:06 (Ref:3872325)   #4
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Totally right of course. Yes sometimes its just a matter of front end gril or decals set to change the things. Those are available or can be reproduced. An example? The Grp2 2600 RS Capri Ripolin driven by Yves Scemama belongs to the front running batch in HTC series by PA. Originally was a 1300 XL.
To go further in your quest-ion, you dont have to choose between two appendixes, K or J, you must comply with both so K and J. Plus your homologation form, plus proof of what was legally used in period. It sounds as a hassle but is not.
Apart from this I find the choice of a DAF a good and original one. Just my opinion.
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 06:52 (Ref:3872336)   #5
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Totally right of course. Yes sometimes its just a matter of front end gril or decals set to change the things. Those are available or can be reproduced. An example? The Grp2 2600 RS Capri Ripolin driven by Yves Scemama belongs to the front running batch in HTC series by PA. Originally was a 1300 XL.
To go further in your quest-ion, you dont have to choose between two appendixes, K or J, you must comply with both so K and J. Plus your homologation form, plus proof of what was legally used in period. It sounds as a hassle but is not.
Apart from this I find the choice of a DAF a good and original one. Just my opinion.
Thanks very much for the reply.

With regards to conforming, I have looked at appendix J and it seems like your usual safety and general stuff. I haven't properly looked through K, I didn't realise they went hand in hand so I'll have to read through K and understand it. With regards to the homologation form, how do I have to comply to it? Just prove its the same car? Does it matter that the only homologation I can find is for a group 1 car for a Volvo 1300 gl?

For period modifications are there any particular methods of proving them period or just search for photos, cars taking part in events or the parts on another car?

With regards to the choice of car, I think it will be the Volvo. The marathon is unlikely and its condition not good, the Volvo's really quite good.

Sorry for so many questions, trying to get my head around all this! Merry Christmas all
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 08:55 (Ref:3872346)   #6
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You car must comply with its homologation form, basically or partially or totally. Appendix K is above everything, including mistakes of course, you must stick to the safety requirements and all the things about Voitures de Tourisme de Série. Appendix J, you must select which year concerns your car and try to find interesting things. No DAF homologated or entered in an itn' race? Drop dead and go Volvo!
Then comes the period correct or period proof thingy. Interesting but risky.

You'll quickly learn why you've better wear a helmet prior to racing! By the way, in your region, how is going the half potato market?

PS The last two are genuine poor jokes, nothing against you, its obvious. Historic racing is a matter of celebration and I can't see why we could celebrate our elders other than making fun with passion…
IMHO and BIMBO! Cheers!
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 09:23 (Ref:3872347)   #7
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It is very daunting at first to try to find out what is allowed .
But if you go through it bit by bit , & ask a lot of other people , then it can all be done .
https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...18_group_1.pdf
That link should get you a copy of the 66 Gp 1 Homologation papers .[ Note , this is a free copy & you should actually have a bought one " non watermarked " to use on events ] .


You also need to read up FIA app K , [ historic regs ]. Which , along with App J of the correct period , will tell you what was allowed for that time .
The Gp 1 Homologation papers only give the original factory specification , but a lot more modifications were allowed under Gp 2 rules of the time .

You also need to know what events you will be doing , because not all countries , series , & individual events run to FIA historic rules , & some have their own variations on them .


That should get you started on some reading up on what to do before you even start on preparing the car .

https://historicdb.fia.com/sites/def...80_group_1.pdf
This should be the Daf 66 ,
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 09:34 (Ref:3872350)   #8
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Well done Tel! This gives me courage to tell Eyebrows that we have the once world class second to none best of all Daf specialists here:
http://simonhadfieldmotorsport.com
He knows "things" about regulations too…
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 09:36 (Ref:3872351)   #9
Tel 911S
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
http://files.freethought.website/fre...ations2018.pdf

I did notice that you said the UK Historic rallies , so here is a link for the current championship rules .
A bit more reading to do .
http://files.freethought.website/fre...ations2018.pdf
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 15:26 (Ref:3872362)   #10
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Merry Christmas all, thank you very much for all that useful info. Did have a good couple of giggles at those replies.

Looks like I need to go read appendix k but that shouldn't be a problem.

So far I have 3 or 4 copies of DAF 66 homologation papers and 1 copy of a Volvo 66 1300. My main question was which of these applies to my Volvo 66 1.1 litre, can I increase the engine size, change the grill and call it a 1300? Or is it fine as it is and because they're basically the same car would they all count?

Some of the DAF homologation papers are group 2, showing cylinder head upgrades etc. Could I do these upgrades on my Volvo or would I have a difficulties getting it accepted?

I'd like to do UK historic rallies, in particular I was thinking the BHRC which has the rules Tel linked to in that last post. Is this a good place to start with a decent car to start with or do I need to do some rethinking? I would also like to occasionally do some other rallies (the current owner of this daf has done the Monte Carlo rally a couple of times in his other dafs). I won't be able to afford this rally yet but in future I would love to do similar things and didn't want to be held back by the particular model (despite the fact it's exactly the same less a few stickers and a different grill).

Thanks for the tip off r.e. Simon Hadfield, might try give him a call in the new year.

Cheers for all the help, really appreciate it
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Old 25 Dec 2018, 17:22 (Ref:3872372)   #11
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Thanks for the tip off r.e. Simon Hadfield, might try give him a call in the new year. The sooner, the better… He does now what he's talking about.
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Old 26 Dec 2018, 07:58 (Ref:3872399)   #12
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Looks like I need to go read appendix k but that shouldn't be a problem.

So far I have 3 or 4 copies of DAF 66 homologation papers and 1 copy of a Volvo 66 1300. My main question was which of these applies to my Volvo 66 1.1 litre, can I increase the engine size, change the grill and call it a 1300? Or is it fine as it is and because they're basically the same car would they all count?

Some of the DAF homologation papers are group 2, showing cylinder head upgrades etc. Could I do these upgrades on my Volvo or would I have a difficulties getting it accepted?
Welcome to the forum, Eyebrows! You’ve already had some good advice, so not much more I can add, but will try and answer the above.

If the Volvo homologation papers don’t show the extra tuning parts, then my understanding is that they can’t be used if you are trying to be FiA compliant. I don’t know how historic rallying approaches such questions, however.

As you’ve already discovered, there don’t appear to be any homologation papers for an 1100cc Volvo 66. Doesn’t mean the model can’t be used, but proof of original spec would be needed by other means. Again, unless rallying is different, you can turn your car into a 1.3 GL as it is the current spec that matters, not how it left the factory. As Gerard mentions earlier, an awful lot of cars being raced and rallied nowadays are built up from original base models!

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Old 26 Dec 2018, 09:27 (Ref:3872409)   #13
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Tel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridTel 911S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Have now had a bit more spare time , so have looked through some of the details .

The class structure on Historic rallies has [ Usually ] no separate Gp N class , & capacity classes are up to 1300cc etc .
So it would be best to enter as 1300 Gp 2 .

Your Volvo 1100 has not got Homologation , so one possibility might be to Badge it as a DAF , you could then enter on the 1100 Gp 2 papers .
The 1100 Gordini engines could be made to go very well , but with steel cranks & lots of other engine work would be very expensive .

Another alternative would be to call your Volvo a 1300 , [ or even try to find a 1300 Renault engine ] , and then modify to what is allowed under Gp 2 regs in App J in period .
Gp 2 Homologation papers are only the Gp 1 papers with some additional comp parts shown . Under App J a lot of things are " FREE" [ do not need to be Homologated ], such as Cams , Manifolds ,Carbs , Exhausts etc .

So I think your best way might be to enter as a Volvo 66 1300cc Gp 2 .
You could check with John Cooper , [ listed in the Championship regs I posted ] , but I believe that you can use the Gp 1 Homologation papers as the car specification , & then App J Gp 2 modification rules to lift the car into Gp 2 .

I don,t think a single Solex carbed engine, [as Gp 1 Spec ] is going to be quick enough .

And have a word with Simon Hadfield about what works best with those engines
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Old 26 Dec 2018, 09:59 (Ref:3872419)   #14
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Tel, sounds like historic rallying is different to FiA racing? For the latter, if I want to fit something that was ‘free’ in period Gp2 (Let’s say a different exhaust manifold), I still have to prove that the part was actually used on a car in that period?
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Old 26 Dec 2018, 10:29 (Ref:3872422)   #15
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Tel, sounds like historic rallying is different to FiA racing? For the latter, if I want to fit something that was ‘free’ in period Gp2 (Let’s say a different exhaust manifold), I still have to prove that the part was actually used on a car in that period?
That is part of the problem .
If the type of part is obviously not of the period , [ modern electronics , 3 way adjustable units etc ] , then it should not be used .

But a lot of it comes down to common sense of the eligibility scrutineers .
It can be very difficult to actually prove use in period , & if the scrutes want to be bl**dy minded about it , you have to actually prove use on an International event .
But fitting things like a set of sidedraught 40 DCOEs , was very common back then , & any sensible scrute should say , " Yes , thats all right for Gp 2 ".
And as for an exhaust manifold , it would be nearly impossible to prove it was exact the same shape & material as used back 40 years ago , so some common sense must apply .
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