Brands Hatch - proposed changes. Poll Added.

[Stainless Steve]

You would have also thought the length of time this thread has been running, someone from MSV would have got wind of peoples feelings and made some kind of comment or announcement, on what is after all the biggest forum for the sport.
It just goes to show they are either out of touch with their 'bread and butter' customers or they really just don't care what we all think.

[barnettracing]

Of course they don't care. As long as they have track hire money rolling in from organising clubs, competitors will continue to get shafted. At the end of the day, if the corner changes we can either suck it up and race or stop driving at one of Britain's most iconic circuits. I still haven't decided which I will do.

[m1fcf]

Originally Posted by MartinH

all competitors should just continue to drive the old line & to hell with their smooth new asphalt !!!!

Then I look forward to waving many yellow flags, and eventually a black flag or two to those who wish to retain the old racing line....

[McMuttley]

[QUOTE=m1fcf;3033201]Then I look forward to waving many yellow flags, and eventually a black flag or two to those who wish to retain the old racing line.... [/QUTE]

The thing with pointless hairpins for cars and esp' club racers, is that some of us aren't very clever and some of us aren't very good (i qualify on both counts) thus they will lead to more unecessary incidents, so the flag is more likely to be double yellow or red, more snatch time, less race time, more repair time and expense that just isn't necessary for good racing, simply to give spectators for a rarely held event a bit of excitement watching cars hit each other - def not for the racer. All i think JP is doing is bunching up another incident point for spectators already at Paddock Hill or the South Bank - at the cost of racers. Ironically, we dont need to entertain others.

Thus the person who suggested keeping the old layout as well, very sensible, eg, historic and new vale. Old for us, new for the televised bikes and Deuthchlanders with doors.

Sad reminder of change (i'm getting old) Bridge corner at last years British GP - used to be a great corner, flying back round to the stands, now a wet hole full of crap t-shirt and burger stands and loads of punters who probably don't even appreciate where they are standing - yet no attempt by Silverstone to make a feature of it or its significance - but then again - Bridge wasn't always there !

Change eh - grumpy oldish racer

[tim dodwell]

Rang them some time ago, and a very bored sounding gentleman informed me that he thought it was already decided. Only took my name down as an objector when I insisted. It certainly now appears that JP HAD decided it was going to happen, in spite of the majority of club racers being against it - they can't be unaware of that fact.
If it does ruin our enjoyment and create more incidents (almost certain), then it is possible that entries to races there will go down - making the track less popular amongst organisers. However, JP would not be worried - he would merely increase the number of trackdays, and if that didn't save the circuit.......think of the value of the circuit for housing.
The only thing that is strange, is that JP used to be club racer himself - didn't he?

[Thundersports]

He did and I think that is a little harsh on JP about the houses etc if it hadn't been for him and others we would already have a housing estate. After all the excitable posts on here no one has come out from MSV and said this is going to happen! I'm of the understanding it won't happen as previously posted..........

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

He did and I think that is a little harsh on JP about the houses etc if it hadn't been for him and others we would already have a housing estate. After all the excitable posts on here no one has come out from MSV and said this is going to happen! I'm of the understanding it won't happen as previously posted..........

crumbs of optimism? I do hope you are right...

[terence]

Anyone read last months Motor Sport? Personally,as already stated,I welcome the proposed change,the circuit isn't long enough anyway.

[barnettracing]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Anyone read last months Motor Sport? Personally,as already stated,I welcome the proposed change,the circuit isn't long enough anyway.

Why does it have to be long though!? It already has the GP loop that is plenty long enough at 2.5 miles. The Indy circuit has always taken around 45-60 seconds to lap in a racing car, why make it longer now, just because there are other longer circuits?

With that reasoning we'd eventually end up with every single circuit in the UK based on the same formula. Ridiculous. Variety is the spice of life.

[terence]

Ultimately,it's JPs circuit,he would not come up with this on his own,its a welcome change.The Indy needs to be more of a challenge,why not make it such?

[barnettracing]

But my argument is why does it have to be more of a challenge? Unless you are easily the fastest guy there whenever you turn up then every race circuit is still a challenge. The appeal of the Indy circuit is that it is short and frenetic, without any chance of a respite. This is its challenge too.

With your sort of logic, Mallory Park and Silverstone National would also need to be extended with more slow & medium speed corners to make them a 'challenge'. If you don't find Copse of Gerrards enough of a challenge you (plural) need to drive quicker.

With regards to Mr Palmer, I think you'll find it is quite often 'my way or the highway'. Everytime he talks about the changes at Snetterton (more awful, Micky Mouse switchbacks) he mentions that it was a 'personal decision of his' and that he 'personally designed the extension' - I know he is waxing lyrical to a degree but, on the whole, from hearing from those who deal with him, he would quite happily make a decision if he was the only one who approved of it.

[terence]

Theres the difference between us,I think the new Snett is far superior to the old,such a wide range of corners.Nothing wrong with Gerrards,just seems strange looking across the infield being able to see the start/finish line,so yes,in my mind,it should be extended.

[barnettracing]

Certainly. Looks like we are going to have to agree to disagree. As long as G. Hill stays as a left-hander then I'll be happy.

[terence]

I heard they were going to alter that,into the village and back again.

[yesnomaybe]

A couple of weekends back at Brands the commentator mentioned that Graham Hill bend changes as if it was definitely happening, or that they’d been a new(er) announcement, has anyone heard anything?

Back in March I emailed MSV / Jonathan Palmer about the proposed changes basically pointing out that most racers are opposed to it, got a reply in April, which was a scan of an article from Motorsport Magazine where they acknowledge that they know people are against the change (which is nice to know they’re taking notice of forums etc), but are still looking to make changes to aid overtaking in high bhp / downforce championships like the DTM, however nothing is set in stone yet, heres a few choice quotes from the article from JP

"The first point to make is that we're not definitley doing anything"

"In an ideal world these things would remain out of the public domain until we're (definitley) doing them, but thats not how planning permission works"

"Graham Hill... its not a classic corner.... its not even a good overtaking spot... its not even challenging for the driver..."

"There has certainly been pressure from the DTM to make overtaking easier"

Personally i think the corner as it is, it is a good overtaking spot for slower racing cars, i've suggested they add to the existing track, leaving the current circuit as it is and then the championships can decide what layout to race on.

Heres a link to the full article in pdf format
http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/4013...9-pm-800k?da=y

I’ve not seen anything official on the MSV sites so I would presume its not definitely happening yet.

[ECW Dan Selby]

I got the gist that it's definitely happening.

But I love your idea of keeping the track as it is now. I've never understood why most tracks demolish one section in place of another. Why not leave the original and have some choice?

For instance, leaving parts of the old Silverstone would have been awesome..

Selby

[yesnomaybe]

gotta agree re silverstone, allthough there is a choice of layouts at vale / club corner, bridge was a great corner, now no longer raced on, allthough it is still there, glad i had a change to race on the 'old' gp circuit in 2010

think its been mentioned earlier in the thread but the new proposed layout at brands leaves hardly any run off if you miss your braking point and go straight on, in a racing truck you would end up on / in the access road! hopefully they'll go down the choice of layouts route if they do it

seems daft to change it for the DTM when its acknowledged that they dont do a huge amount of overtaking at any track

[terence]

RE Silverstone,two of the best corners in the country gone,lots of complaints/protest's made,did it make a difference?

[dyewat808]

I think someone mentioned this already but I can already see them having trouble enforcing the track limits of that right-hander out of the hairpin.

Solid no from me too

[terence]

Snetterton style kerbing would enforce the limits.

[The SpeCTator]

I watched the DTM at the weekend an came away thinking if we had a hairpin replacing GHB it would have made zero difference in overtaking. If they cannot overtake at one hairpin,why would they overtake at another?

For many categories a second hairpin would ruin the challenge of Surtees as they would arrive at lower speed.
The knock on effect may hit Clearways too.

JP is a brilliant business man and I believe his common sense and numerous contacts will ward him off this mod to an iconic race track on the world stage.

However if his mindset is fixed on a hairpin, he could consider a third option that will invlove new plans.

Put the "original" GHB back to recreate a wonderfully flowing circuit once more and build a DTM hairpin IN ADDITION. This would be a loop to be used for DTM and maybe other super fast categories

If it were feasable and you ran a poll I reckon it would reach win - win status

[ascarmarshal]

Sevenoaks District Council has givem planning permission for the alterations

[McArthur252]

Originally Posted by The SpeCTator

Put the "original" GHB back to recreate a wonderfully flowing circuit once more and build a DTM hairpin IN ADDITION. This would be a loop to be used for DTM and maybe other super fast categories

Agreed. A loop would be a great idea. They've got loads of room on the inside of the corner there. Comes down to cost I guess.

[dyewat808]

Quick question borne of genuine ignorance in relation to the above suggestion - how come its cheaper for them to demolish the old bit and more expensive for them to just keep the old part of the track and add the hairpin in? Seems counter intuitive to me

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Not going to happen...........

31/12/11