Croft under threat!!!!! (merged) and merged again!

[silver bullet]

I have just recieved a press release from the Jack Frost Stages, that was held at Croft Circuit yesterday.

I had to read it several times as I could not believe what I saw.

Here are a few paragraphs from the release.

BIRD WINS WHAT COULD BE 'LAST EVER EVENT' AT CROFT

Kawasaki World Superbike boss Paul Bird defied the wintry conditions and stiff opposition to win yesterday's Cartersport Jack Frost Stages Rally at Croft Circuit in North Yorkshire but following last week's High Court ruling, it could be the Penrith poultry magnate and his Northallerton co-driver Ian Windress have taken victory at the historic circuit for the very last time.

The Subaru WRC pairing may have won the Darlington & DMC event by 34 seconds ahead of local aces Chris Wise and Tracey Taylor-West in their MG Metro 6R4, but with the news on Friday that a Judge had awarded three local residents £150,000 as compensation for noise issues, an air of gloom hung over the event.

The three residents, Derek and Julia Watson and their daughter, Jill Wilson, live at Vince Moor East, Dalton-on-Tees, within about 300 metres of the circuit. They have only moved there recently due to a former relative gaining employment at Croft Circuit, who has since left, but in recent years have claimed that excessive noise has inconvenienced them, despite Croft having some of the most stringent noise laws and operating restrictions of any circuit in the country.

The circuit, which first saw race action in 1928, has appealed against the decision and is expected to hear within the next three weeks as to whether they have been successful but if not, not only could it be disastrous for Croft itself, but it would have potentially catastrophic ramifications for British motorsport in general with a precedent being set for local residents to sue their neighbouring race circuit (or any sporting or recreational facility for that matter).

"This can't be allowed to happen and we will do whatever we can in our power to stop these people" said multi-millionaire Bird. "This place was here long before them and if they don't like it, they should move." It is an opinion shared by most people it must be said.

Event sponsor yesterday, Larry Carter, who provides commentary at Croft as well as looking after the circuit's publicity said: "How can it be that people who have only just moved into the area have the right to close down an historic facility which is so vital to the local economy as well as the tens of thousands of motorsport enthusiasts who rely on Croft for their recreation? Let's hope common sense prevails otherwise the UK could become like Switzerland where motorsport is banned."

Darlington and District Motor Club secretary Terry Wright said "The Cartersport Jack Frost Stages Rally was once again a resounding success and congratulations to Paul Bird and Ian Windress on their victory. Despite the depressing news we heard last week we can assure all competitors that the Jack Frost Stages Rally will be back in 2010 and it is our intention to run the event at Croft Circuit."

Circuit Manager Tracey Morley commented: "Obviously we are very disappointed with the initial decision and are hoping for a Judge to overturn another Judge's decision. Whether that will happen or not is hard to say but the future is very uncertain at the moment."

[chezza]

This is unbelievable...but was bound to happen sooner or later. I just hope the brands residents don't get hold of this!

[bella]

there's a facebook group if anyone wants to spread the word a bit. awareness is crucial.

[Al Weyman]

I just hope the brands residents don't get hold of this!

Of course they will Chezza also those at Combe, Lydden, Snetterton etc etc, what a terrible cruel blow to our beloved sport and as court judgments in this country seem to be based on the outcome of previous similar past cases I hate to say it but if this happens the writing is well and truly on the wall for our sport.

I hope this manic bunch of idiots we have in power will sit back and be proud of what they have achieved when the hundreds of thousands employed in motorsport find themselves on the dole to join the rest that have been or will be due to this government's past policys on banking, God help us all.

[Mr.Jingles]

Assuming the noise levels genuinely haven't increased (this is crucial) this should be groundless. The fact they moved into the area knowing the tracks existence and the nature of it's disruption should nullify the court case. Lets hope the appeal is successful and this is overturned forthwith - otherwise I fear Al is right and in years to come this will be the event that we say "turned the tide" against our beloved motorsport.

I wonder if they have got a defense fund set up for donations? I think I'll fire off an email. After all, every little bit helps...

[Tim Wilkinson]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jingles

The fact they moved into the area knowing the tracks existence and the nature of it's disruption should nullify the court case.

Not just knowing, but because of!

[andy robinson]

heres a bit more on this horrible news
http://www.bikesportnews.com/article...NOISE_LEVELS_1

[midgetman]

It's a sad indictment of the country we live in. Interesting to see whether a precedent extends to runway 3 at Heathrow.

[Mr.Jingles]

Originally Posted by Tim Wilkinson

Not just knowing, but because of!

Yes - the former employee aspect does lend itself to "hand bitting" accusations.

Originally Posted by andy robinson

heres a bit more on this horrible news
http://www.bikesportnews.com/article...NOISE_LEVELS_1

Hmm. This muddies the waters doesn't it? Going for the Track Day crowd rather than Racedays. Still, I don't think it materially changes anything in that this is akin to me moving next to an opencast mine and then complaining about the mining!

I assume the house price would have been impacted by the *existing* circuit use, so again - don't understand that side of the argument. Has Croft ramped up it's test days THAT much that it materially affects these people?

If I were Croft I'd offer to buy the house in lieu of damages

As croft have a mandatory noise limit of 98dba there isn't much else they could do surely?

[Al Weyman]

I live in Watford and apparently this 3rd runway will impact on the area as planes will approach and takeoff over the town, can I do anything about that? No way!

[Mr.Jingles]

National Project, Al. Special planning exemptions granted. Oh yes, rules for the rich and rules for the rest as per usual

The case documentation can be found here:

http://www.richardbuxton.co.uk/v3.0/?q=node/334

As previously stated in this thread, they are going for the track day usage. I'd highlight points 67 onwards as particularly interesting for the "moving next door to the track/open pit/firing range" defense..... seems that is no defense at all.

[Mr.Jingles]

And here it is, the 'Miller VS Jackson' case that underpins it all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller_v._Jackson

[strider]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jingles

The case documentation can be found here:

http://www.richardbuxton.co.uk/v3.0/?q=node/334

As previously stated in this thread, they are going for the track day usage. I'd highlight points 67 onwards as particularly interesting for the "moving next door to the track/open pit/firing range" defence..... seems that is no defence at all.

People often say that the law is an ass and this is a prime example of why they do so. If I buy a house near Heathrow, am I entitled to complain about the noise? No, yet the houses affected here are only 300 metres from the circuit, so it must have been perfectly obvious from day one what was going on.

It also bothers me that one of the complainants is the ex-wife of Jimmy Wilson, who was largely responsible for getting the circuit back into action back in the Nineties. Is there more to her complaint than meets the eye?

Either way, the whole affair stinks and should be fought tooth and nail.

[garcon]

How unique for the motorsport world to fling their arms in the air claiming injustice and oppression...

Most other circuits have to work with stringent curfews and limits of days in use - maybe Croft needs to take that on board. There are an AWFUL lot of trackdays up there these days.... which I would imagine has led to a significant increase in noise and disruption.

[Mr.Jingles]

Originally Posted by garcon

How unique for the motorsport world to fling their arms in the air claiming injustice and oppression...

Most other circuits have to work with stringent curfews and limits of days in use - maybe Croft needs to take that on board. There are an AWFUL lot of trackdays up there these days.... which I would imagine has led to a significant increase in noise and disruption.

Since 1998 the activity at the Circuit has ranged between a low 144 days in 2001 (of which 98 days were N1-4) and 207 days in 2000 (of which 147 days were N1-N4), concentrated in the summer months.

We don't have figures going back beyond that, but since they applied in 1994 (and weren't granted until 1995?) for the increased track activity, it's debate timeline wise as to if the owners would/wouldn't have known what they were buying into.

On 8 October 1998 the Defendant gave its unilateral undertaking under the provision of s.106 the 1990 Act. This Agreement contained a detailed set of measurement criteria by which noise from the Circuit would be assessed and monitored. It also prescribed the racing activities which could be undertaken, and when quiet and rest days were to be held. The activities were divided into N1 to N5 activities, according to the noise levels which were generated, as follows:
N1 activities (no more than 95dBA over an hour) shall not exceed 10 days a year
N2 activities (no more than 93dBA) shall not exceed 40 days a year.
N3 activities (no more than 85dBA) shall not exceed 70 days a year.
N4 activities (no more than 78dBA) may not exceed 110 days a year.
N1-N4 days therefore may take place on 230 days a year.
N5 activities (no more than 70dBA) are unlimited in number.
In all cases, the noise levels are measured at an identified point adjacent to the track.

I think the noise level, and not the number, is what should have been addressed - how many track cars are below 78dBA? unmodified only?

In any case, they were moving next door to an active circuit - it is naive, nay, stupid - to assume that a track undergoing heavy investment wouldn't warrant use to recoup that.

I think a noise abatement order to enforce those noise limits would have been the way forward, not ludcrious damage costs. And possibly a lashing of common sense for the home owner.

[chunder]

I am amazed someone like the MSA has not yet come up with a strategy to combat this kind of thing really.

I am staggered at the circumstances here, but you have to look at it from the judges point of view, it's law that counts here not common sense, you have to understand that in these cases.

It doesnt matter that these people knew the track was there, it doesnt matter that they haven't been there long, what does matter is being able to PROVE that noise is a problem.

The only way to combat that is with serious help from a governming body that seems hell bent on letting tracks close! The circuit are obviously biased surely and will stop at nothing to put their point across.

I realise that it maybe is not the MSA's remit to ensure tracks stay alive, but surely they could have some involvment, they carry some weight at least! Or maybe the MIA or BRDC etc etc.

As for anyone having a pop, well that is just inane drivel! As AL says, I live in the South East and have issues with trains, the M25 noise, Heathrow, Stansted and Luton all within 25 miles!! I know it's not the same but Jesus Christ!

Sadly, EVERY single track these days is going to have to face up to this, it's the tip of the iceberg I'm afraid. People power is one against the world and it's all about the lawyer, not about the thousands of people who enjoy the area, the countless hotels and B&B's, already battered by foot and mouth and the recession, the local pubs, chippys, petrol stations! Don't you just love modern Britain!

[Saucy]

What the **** are these people mad or just plain stupid. Did they not realise that there is a motor circuit close to them when they bought the house? Having a family member who was to be, and then was employed by Croft should of given it away. Round them up put them in a far corner of a field then shoot them. Sounds harsh I know but even if I wasn't into motorsport I would think the same way. There's nowt as queer as folk.

[Al Weyman]

In any case, they were moving next door to an active circuit - it is naive, nay, stupid - to assume that a track undergoing heavy investment wouldn't warrant use to recoup that.

Can I put my cynics hat on and say maybe not naive, maybe very cunning and planned knowing full well the current noise and pollution laws, a good opportunity to earn £150k, the house will be worth no more and no less whether the circuit stays or goes, if it stays it will have people wanting to move in simply because they may have employment there (as this person did) if it goes then the area will be all the poorer with less employment so cannot see it hyping the price of the property up.

Also on Chezzas point, OK the judge has to uphold the law and make a judgement (hence my previous point on past cases) but how on earth does he arrive at the figure of £150k. That would make every poor council flat dweller who has to put up with selfish noisy neighbours partying to the early hours claims for compensation in the half a million plus bracket or don't they count!

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by garcon

How unique for the motorsport world to fling their arms in the air claiming injustice and oppression...

Most other circuits have to work with stringent curfews and limits of days in use - maybe Croft needs to take that on board. There are an AWFUL lot of trackdays up there these days.... which I would imagine has led to a significant increase in noise and disruption.

IIRC Croft does have a 6pm curfew, also on certain Sundays all track activity has to stop for one hour to accommodate a nearby church service.

[garcon]

Reading into the details of this (which are quite peculiar in the case of at least one claimant very "close" to the circuit, if you get me... ), it would seem it is the trackdays that are causing the most concern. In the summer months, the track is in use almost every day - and that is something that has developed over more recent years.

So while I agree this should be handled sensibly, I can't help thinking some of the locals have a point.

And frankly, talk of the circuit closing is just typical bluster from the other side (unless ridiculous compensation really is awarded, of course...)

[Mr.Jingles]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Can I put my cynics hat on and say maybe not naive, maybe very cunning

I'd considered this, but thought the spurned wife *must* be above this, and surely nobody ever wanted to make money from it. God forbid.

Originally Posted by garcon

So while I agree this should be handled sensibly, I can't help thinking some of the locals have a point.

And frankly, talk of the circuit closing is just typical bluster from the other side (unless ridiculous compensation really is awarded, of course...)

I'm sure they do - with the track days - but it's not clear why they didn't try and enforce the 106 noise limits first. This doesn't seem fair and equitable, neither does it seem proportional, so it would violate a few guidlines given for compensation (this is based on a covenant issue I am going through - chatted about this whilst I was on the phone to the Legal Beagle, probably at about £125/hour but still!).

Limiting trackdays will just up raceday costs and "cap" the growth of the industry (nobody is going to build a new track after all, not with this hanging over their heads). Can't be good, can it?

Force the track to buy their home and let them re-locate. Then someone who does appreciate motorsport can move near. Win-win?

[andy robinson]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

IIRC Croft does have a 6pm curfew, also on certain Sundays all track activity has to stop for one hour to accommodate a nearby church service.

no race cars to started before 12 noon on any sunday, as on several occassions we/ve had to push them to the assembly area for our 12.15 race

[rdjones]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

IIRC Croft does have a 6pm curfew, also on certain Sundays all track activity has to stop for one hour to accommodate a nearby church service.

They are also not allowed till start till 12pm on a Sunday.

[PTRACER]

Locals complaining about the noise levels has cut racing back on the Grand Prix circuit at Brands. I think it's a great shame that the GP circuit has been there and used actively since 1960 but it can't be used for more than a handful of days per year because of some miserable people who have been there for far less time.

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by PTRACER

Locals complaining about the noise levels has cut racing back on the Grand Prix circuit at Brands. I think it's a great shame that the GP circuit has been there and used actively since 1960 but it can't be used for more than a handful of days per year because of some miserable people who have been there for far less time.

To a point, you can blame the local "councils" for letting loads of houses to be built close to the track in the last 20 + years.
Although obviously the people knew the track was there.