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22 Jun 2019, 17:27 (Ref:3913514) | #7051 | |
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Different issues. Homologation rules changed, carbon fibre monocoque was no longer allowed and the minimum production numbers went to 300s which Koeniggsegg would not have met. Of course fanboys on the internet have turned this into a conspiracy theory too.
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22 Jun 2019, 18:26 (Ref:3913525) | #7052 | ||
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Hello. Hindy saying on the Nurburgring 24 comms that Bentley motorsport are proposing a prototype entry for 2020/21 to their board this week.
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24 Jun 2019, 02:35 (Ref:3913821) | #7053 | ||
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24 Jun 2019, 06:50 (Ref:3913842) | #7054 | ||
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Quote:
The proposal is for an ACO hypercar programme in prototype guise, same as Toyota. Whilst I'm struggling massively to find anything appealing whatsoever in these new regs, I guess I'd consider a Bentley programme to be a slight sweetener. And if the other successful marque from the early years revisited their heritage and returned, I might even find a little genuine enthusiasm. |
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24 Jun 2019, 10:03 (Ref:3913894) | #7055 | ||
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As I've said all along, as long as the racing is decent and the cars aren't completely hideous I can find little reason to care about the nitty gritty of the regs.
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24 Jun 2019, 10:06 (Ref:3913896) | #7056 | ||
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Quote:
My opinion falls between these 2 extremes somewhere. |
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24 Jun 2019, 11:29 (Ref:3913906) | #7057 | ||
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They messed up with turbos vs non-turbos, though, which was one of the main-issues hampering the original Porsche GT1 and later all the privateer-built GTS-Porsches as well. Turbos were legal, but so far disadvantaged that it really didn't make any sense to race anything other than a high-displacement NA-engine.
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
24 Jun 2019, 11:35 (Ref:3913907) | #7058 | ||
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Quote:
AND NOWHERE DID I SAY A DAMN THING ABOUT RULES=BOP. I recommend you learn how to read and compile information before you attempt to attack someone who speaks and reads the language better than you ever will. But thanks for convincing me the sportscar board is full of *******s who want to hear themselves ***** and pretend they know more than rules, makers, teams, media and well fans who want to actually enjoy something. It wasn't cool when record stores did it, it was cool when video dorks did it and both have crashed and burned. Sadly this site used to have discussions but now it's how much f'ing smarter people who have never been involved in racing anything larger than a toy car on their parents' floor want to tell everyone how to enjoy racing and what the rules should be. Sorry but they rulesmakers couldn't give two shits about your opinion, and like excrement, it often stinks, |
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24 Jun 2019, 13:16 (Ref:3913932) | #7059 | |||
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Quote:
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24 Jun 2019, 13:58 (Ref:3913942) | #7060 | ||
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To be fair, Audi Sport and Porsche have between them 32 wins at LM alone. And that's even more if you add Bentley's 5 pre-World War II wins and Bugatti's pre-war wins retrospectively.
I'd argue that unless some tech window gets opened up beyond hypercar LMP1, Audi and Porsche don't have anything left to prove. However, Lamborghini hasn't been to Le Mans, and I'm sure if given the opportunity, Bentley would like to add a potential LM win or two before the Zero Emissions vehicles become the favored platform for LM. |
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Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
24 Jun 2019, 14:17 (Ref:3913944) | #7061 | ||
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I'd have thought the potential marketing gains for VAG would be better with an everyday brand than a luxury one? Would seeing Lambo win lemans shift more Lambos? I'd argue that a positive marketing spin for say a VW entry would yield far more value for VAG as a group.
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24 Jun 2019, 14:39 (Ref:3913949) | #7062 | ||
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But is VW itself noted for performance cars? Not really. VW is VAG's bread and butter/meat and potatoes brand, along with Seat and Skoda. Lamborghini has never seriously been to LM, and since being acquired by VAG, has been a profitable company. Bentley is also profitable, and has serious LM history over the years. Audi and Porsche have little if anything left to prove until EV or hydrogen fuel cell or hydrogen hybrid cars come to the fore.
So I think that in the near future, it'd probably be Bentley or Lamborghini to get the nod for a potential LM program. |
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Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
24 Jun 2019, 15:14 (Ref:3913958) | #7063 | |||
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Quote:
Whatever, I would be very happy to have Bentley turn up. |
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24 Jun 2019, 15:29 (Ref:3913966) | #7064 | ||
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Quote:
https://youtu.be/ZXz8cNjXlzA?t=19968 |
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24 Jun 2019, 15:34 (Ref:3913967) | #7065 | |||
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Quote:
Toyota made/makes the Supra, and own Lexus. Granted, that's like saying that VW makes the Golf GTI and owns Audi, Porsche Cars, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti. Biggest difference is that Toyota has run under that name in Indy Car, Le Mans, F1, NASCAR and other ventures. I can't think of very many high performance motorsports ventures that VW entered under the VW brand over the years. I can only think of the WRC in the late '80s and a few years back for VAG entering Volkswagen in a major championship. |
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Power to me is having the ability to make a change in a positive way. Don't dream it, be it. |
24 Jun 2019, 15:47 (Ref:3913970) | #7066 | |
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24 Jun 2019, 18:57 (Ref:3914000) | #7067 | |
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A final (yeah, right) word on BoP: It Can be done well. If cars are not adjusted frequently and without testing (like between quail and the race) and if the organizers can avoid micromanaging on a per-track basis (let some cars have advantages at different tracks if their designs so benefit them) then there is no reason the new regs cannot work. Given the management skill and the carefully considered judgments made b FIA/ACO in the past, I am sure we can expect them to do this right.
If the new regs do attract a bunch of teams, that in itself is a huge benefit. I am willing to watch and wait. It is possible the new era of international sportscar racing won’t be significantly worse than the last. |
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24 Jun 2019, 20:53 (Ref:3914017) | #7068 | |||
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Quote:
I think that's actually a lot of the problem that ACO and WEC have. The vast majority of the marketing value of their product is not coming from the events including even the 24 Hours itself but just being able to say you won Le Mans so participation is inordinately dependent on the chances of victory. It used to be that endurance racing was so grueling and cutting edge that even making it to the end in a decent place was something you could brag about but these days nobody even gives a crap about a 3rd place finish. So you have a lot of manufacturers looking at hypercar right now and thinking they don't need a big budget to beat other manufacturers, but I feel like only so many will commit before deciding there's too many competitors to provide a high enough chance of success even with BoP. Quote:
If you aren't equating rules and BoP, then why the hell did you bring up "no rules" here when no one else has mentioned such a thing? You've tried to shut down BoP complaints with the "but having rules is balancing cars so it's always been this way" nonsense in the past too. |
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25 Jun 2019, 12:45 (Ref:3914119) | #7069 | ||
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I'm not sure performance car pedigree makes much difference with these enormous companies. Toyota could probably engineer a fighter jet if they really wanted to, irrespective of how fast my Yaris is (not very).
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26 Jun 2019, 02:53 (Ref:3914222) | #7070 | |
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1 Jul 2019, 14:37 (Ref:3915346) | #7071 | ||
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Good summary of DSC on other Hypercar projects beyond Toyota and Aston Martin
http://www.dailysportscar.com/2019/0...p7NLuSn5ooIXYE |
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1 Jul 2019, 16:50 (Ref:3915370) | #7072 | |
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Speaking of VAG, the crisis just got worse, can of worms blew up!
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...ices-v6-diesel https://www.handelsblatt.com/unterne...GwmgvBCC1H-ap1 |
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Cromley: "With the margin Gareth has, he doesn't need to play for sheep stations" |
1 Jul 2019, 20:15 (Ref:3915402) | #7073 | |||
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1 Jul 2019, 20:21 (Ref:3915407) | #7074 | ||
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Lamborghini Targeting Prototype Future
https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...gram-for-2022/ Quote:
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2 Jul 2019, 02:15 (Ref:3915442) | #7075 | |
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Perfect time for them to hook up with an Oreca or Ligier or other constructor and go 'halves' on a hypercar program. There's willing parties, I'm sure the money is the biggest and maybe only issue besides a boardroom blessing.
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