Closed Roads Consultation

[Robert Farrell]

S. Feltham
Whilst I can see you are disenchanted with certain areas of motor sport. F1 in particular.
The Sports Council statistics, which you posted, of participation in motor sport on an area by area basis reveal much about the manner in which the data was collected.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to elaborate further your views on this particular MSA request.

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham

Sadly I fear, it will never actually happen.

Unfortunately, Britain has degraded to either sycophantically idolise grungy tattooed football oiks, soap opera "Stars", and supposed singers.

Anything much else, including sensible pursuits, immediately acts as a magnet to the health and safety brigade, Nimbies, interfering busybodies, feverishly quoting EU regulations and the army of Lefty-Liberal nutters, waxing lyrically about "Quality of Life": whatever that actually means.............

IMHO Formula One, thanks to the benighted Poison Dwarf, epitomises the core realities: nothing whatsoever do do with its true wondrous roots and no longer actually a branch of motorsport, generically, but rather, a product brand in its own right with one sole objective: viz, to earn the bloody dwarf more billions so he can waste this on his latest trophy arm candy and his slapper offspring.

Practically, with such a saturation of cars, dwellings and businesses, there is not much left on which to hold any meaningful event.

Even, as we know now, circuits and stadia are under increasingly hostile attack.

Realistically, no chance of holding any event such as Mille Miglia, Targa Floria, or even Mannin Moar or Mannin Beg, anymore.

The cost of liability insurance would be prohibitive: even where an area wanted to hold such event.

Still, in memory and nostalgia, I can treasure the fact of the club (TEAC and other clubs) rallies I participated in, during the early 1970s; on public roads: at night; and all apart from areas prohibited by the then authority, the RAC (in conjunction with the M. of T), on narrow back roads and "Yellows".

Now, they were bloody fun and harmed no one.



P.S. You can view some movie footage of the Mannin Beg here: all around the houses, Douglas, I of M.

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-mannin-beg

AGREED ONE HUNDRED PERCENT!!!!

Christ we have race circuits that if you start a car at 8.59 and 45 seconds instead of 9AM ...someone rings the council to complain!!!.....and as you all know...Im a half full type of gal...not half empty....but I'm also a realist....and I am fed up with hearing how we all are evil because we like Motorsport and how the world would be a better place without Petrol and/or four wheels and that we should all give cyclists 3 to 6ft when we overtake em!

I Will support it and do what ever I can (or indeed our Motorclub can) to help but in truth....I don't see it doing much

Hell...if it does come off, Im gonna apply for a 24 hour race in Essex!!! I KNOW JUST THE PLACE!!!

[midgetman]

Sideways, I fear prejudice has allowed you to run rather riot with the facts...

I don't think proper insurance would be that hard to find, otherwise we wouldn't have road rallies. Which we still do, despite the fact that these roads aren't even closed ergo the risk must be higher. There's one thing the MSA does well and that's beaurocracy and I am sure this has been addressed before going "official" otherwise their expensive case would be shot down before it's even taken off.

Now I personally think that closed road racing could do more harm to our sport than good because this is the 2010s not the 1950s and this is a different world. However I realise I am in the minority of enthusiasts, I just think there are more pressing things for the MSA to tackle with my licence fee.

Slowly but surely the MSA is losing a grip on motor sport, I think this is the dying act of a dinosaur trying to hark back to its "glory days".

[gt917]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Hell...if it does come off, Im gonna apply for a 24 hour race in Essex!!! I KNOW JUST THE PLACE!!!

What the A12 between Brentwood and Colchester !!!!

No chance, it,s already a race track !!!!!!!!!!!!

[johngee]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Slowly but surely the MSA is losing a grip on motor sport, I think this is the dying act of a dinosaur trying to hark back to its "glory days".

You may think that - I couldn't possibly comment!

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by Robert Farrell

S. Feltham
Whilst I can see you are disenchanted with certain areas of motor sport. F1 in particular.
The Sports Council statistics, which you posted, of participation in motor sport on an area by area basis reveal much about the manner in which the data was collected.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to elaborate further your views on this particular MSA request.

Disenchanted, Robert?

Not really, just disinterested, probably. In historic racing, cars and current technology, very much interested.

Since the RAC allowed limited advertising, this started a trend which soon moved to corporate sponsorship. And the big money moved in; to the whole detriment of what was once a sport.

From a practical personal perspective, "Cheap" club racing is now a slave to the circuit owners themselves being driven by competitive demand (i.e. if a major team wants to hire a circuit for closed testing and waves big bucks, then the owner grabs it; thus taking up one of the few, allocated days).

Even what was the old British Touring Cars Championship, fell foul to the siren's song of big money: drivers pushing each off and banging together, was simply banger racing. And could only happen because the sponsors would simply keep on paying: and loved the crowd pulling spectacle of a sort of death destruction derby.

Good business for the car builders and drives, yes: but not motorsport. No.

If the MSA believe they enjoy traction with their application and PR efforts, well good luck to them!

Stats: as the MSA themselves clearly stated on their website, credible statistics are virtually impossible to acquire from known credible data sets.

Ergo, with the vast money and capital flooding into the Olympics, Football, even snooker and darts (which are not a sport per se!), Tennis etc, I just wonder how many true afficionadosare really left?

After all, how many can regularly afford to even watch race meetings now?

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by ClaireSmith

Hell...if it does come off, Im gonna apply for a 24 hour race in Essex!!! I KNOW JUST THE PLACE!!!

So do I, Claire! A13 and A127. Particularly Saturday night at around 9.0 P.M. when all the dipsticks flood down from East London etc in the big exhaust saloons and big mobikes!

Always reminds me of Brands on the old mixed cars and bikes on the circuit together test sessions!

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by midgetman

Sideways, I fear prejudice has allowed you to run rather riot with the facts...

I don't think proper insurance would be that hard to find, otherwise we wouldn't have road rallies.

Anyone with experience of dealing with County and local councils and their armies of jobsworth pen pushers, knows how insane regulations are now!

Forsooth! Scaffolding erected to replace the bitumen felt roof of a single story lock up garage!

My Vicar who is a close friend, was explaining how at a previous parish, he had the task of organising the Memorial Day parade, through the village a few years back.

Te council sent him a form; copious pages where he had to detail each and every possible safety precaution to be taken and each and every possible risk. From sunburn to snakebite!

The form ended by demanding he detailed what steps he had taken to plan for risk management on any unforeseen or unidentified contingency!!

How does on plan for a wholly unknown?

He thought very carefully and eventually put in "I will pray!"



No doubt this response tripped a series of internal meetings: between the H and S mob and the Equality and Discrimination gang and the Diversity Planning group!!

"How many transgender, transvestite and LGT entrants are you planning for in this event?"

"What is the expected racial diversity of both entrants and drivers?"

[terence]

Quote)



No doubt this response tripped a series of internal meetings: between the H and S mob and the Equality and Discrimination gang and the Diversity Planning group!!

"How many transgender, transvestite and LGT entrants are you planning for in this event?"

"What is the expected racial diversity of both entrants and drivers?"

[/QUOTE]

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by johngee

You may think that - I couldn't possibly comment!

[MartinSmith]

Originally Posted by terence bower

Quote)



No doubt this response tripped a series of internal meetings: between the H and S mob and the Equality and Discrimination gang and the Diversity Planning group!!

"How many transgender, transvestite and LGT entrants are you planning for in this event?"

"What is the expected racial diversity of both entrants and drivers?"

[/QUOTE]




Sounds like we need someone in charge of "RACE RELATIONS" (boom boom) ....Im here all week.....you can laugh....did they tell you that on the way in!!!

[flagwaver]

You seem to be forgetting we already have one event on closed roads on mainland UK the Jim Clark Rally. We also have the Mull Rally. (IOM is slightly different.) So there are Risk Assessments, Statistical analysis available (for risk and commercial assessments) so it can be done.

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by flagwaver

You seem to be forgetting we already have one event on closed roads on mainland UK the Jim Clark Rally. We also have the Mull Rally. (IOM is slightly different.) So there are Risk Assessments, Statistical analysis available (for risk and commercial assessments) so it can be done.

Not a typical and good exemplar since:

"An Act to confirm a Provisional Order under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1936, relating to Scottish Borders Council (Jim Clark Memorial Rally)."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/cy/ukla/1996/12/enacted

Scottish law is rather different from England and Wales.

http://www.scotborders.gov.uk/direct...im_clark_rally

I am not being negative, BTW, just intensely practical; since I have had much (Too bloody much!) to do with central, local, regional and county government over the past 30 years........

[ProCo2020]

This is a once in a life time opportunity to get motorsport out of the permanent tracks and out of the forests and take it to the people. Don't be a NIMBY or think about the NIMBY's but be positive and write to the government supporting this proposal.

I think all branches of motorsport could benefit.

An Autotest in a town centre, a sprint along the high street, a hill climb up that great road you've always dreamt of giving it beans up and of course rallying in the lanes.

The headlines are the supposed London GP but that maybe just to grab the unwasheds attention by those of us who know and love motorsport maybe looking a little more local and low key, but still events that will support the local economy and give us a challenge.

I urge you please write in support of the legislation, even if you have doubts over some events you may imagine that could take place, you don't have to take part or watch them.

[flagwaver]

Originally Posted by SidewaysFeltham

Not a typical and good exemplar since:

"An Act to confirm a Provisional Order under the Private Legislation Procedure (Scotland) Act 1936, relating to Scottish Borders Council (Jim Clark Memorial Rally)."

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/cy/ukla/1996/12/enacted

Scottish law is rather different from England and Wales.

http://www.scotborders.gov.uk/direct...im_clark_rally

I am not being negative, BTW, just intensely practical; since I have had much (Too bloody much!) to do with central, local, regional and county government over the past 30 years........

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. One of the first things that a council will want to know is, has it been done before? What information have you that this event will be safe? What are the benefits for us? etc etc.

Now while I accept the law(s) themselves maybe different. We do have data from the UK that at least gives us a starting point.

[SidewaysFeltham]

Originally Posted by flagwaver

Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. One of the first things that a council will want to know is, has it been done before? What information have you that this event will be safe? What are the benefits for us? etc etc.

Now while I accept the law(s) themselves maybe different. We do have data from the UK that at least gives us a starting point.

The power for any council, county, local and/or unitary is granted by central government and thus parliament by what is called "Enabling Legislation": i.e. statutory law. (Rarely but sometimes by the use of an SI (Statutory Instrument: which is a sneaky way for government to slide through changes to extant statute).

Therefore, unless a local authority already enjoys such dispensation (e.g. Brom City Council), closed roads events need either an extension to the RTA, or an SI, modifying same.

Citing Scot's law at the present time would, IMHO, go up rather like a lead balloon!

Now, I repeat as earlier, I am not being negative or over-critical: just objective and pragmatic and offering my own empirical experience..........

I would dearly love to see events emulating Mannin Moar, Mannin Beg, Phoenix Park (Dublin) or even a watered down Targa.

All provided, naturally, they weren't instantly hijacked by the usual suspects and turned into yet another processional circus act.

[ProCo2020]

Saying all that....

Have those that have posted on here written in support?

[Derwent Motorsp]

Both the Mull and JCMR are special events where there was tremendous goodwill to the event when they were founded. Even they now have NIMBY folk objecting.
I've run events here in Cumbria for some 40 years now and could put a very good route together but it will never happen because of:

• We have two national parks who would object on principal
• Much of the area between our NPs, alongside the M6 have a large number of holiday homes.
• The roads in the high Pennines are generally too straight and fast.
• The roads are too busy to close as they would prevent locals and tourists getting from A to B to spend money.
• Unless you are talking about a big event like the JCMR, you are not going to bring a huge sum of money into the area to justify the disruption.

There may be areas like North Wales were road rallies are accepted where it could happen and perhaps the odd hill climb and sprint, perhaps as an extended version of some of the demostration events we have now.

[Robert Farrell]

(With apologies to those who live south of Shap)
Well Graeme I see it initially as an opportunity to improve what we already have.
There must places in Keilder and Spadeadam where the closure of a 100 yard stretch of rarely used public road would transform the competitive part of an event. Imagine if you could close the 200 yards of public road separating Combe and Hobcarton.
We are a long way from The Course de Cote de Whinlatter or the Buttertubs Bergrennen. Softly,softly etc