Round 10 - Moto GP 2012, Laguna Seca

[jhansen]

The race weekend begins today with the first free practice in a couple of hours. It's only the GP class. Elias is in for Barbera. Lorenzo, Stoner and Pedrosa have all gone well here, so I think they should be the favorites. Depending on which Ben Spies shows up, he could factor as well. Lots of silly season talk going on, but I don't expect to learn much new this weekend. Game on.

[jhansen]

The times are pretty quick so far. Pedrosa just threw down a 1:21.088. Best race lap was a 1:21.376 in 2010 by Stoner. All time lap record is a 1:20.700 by Stoner on qualifiers in 2008. Could these guys break the circuit record without the aid of qualifiers?

[gomick]

Great ride by Casey - glad he won, mainly because the expert commentators kept on going on about his tyre choice. They don't know ****...

[chunder]

Lol, he only picked that trye coz he cant use the hard one!

Dani picked the hard one and was a bit off the pace.

if I was Vale, I would be trying every which way but how to get off that awful bike, I know Hayden is going quicker, but Jesus, I reckon Vale would better off on a CRT, he has NO confidence and NO trust, the thing has eaten him alive in 2 years.

Just quit mate, no-one will think any worse of you, you are not proving a damn thing anymore

[jhansen]

That race was difficult to watch. Very processional.

Stoner was smart. He backed off ever so slightly for a few laps when Lorenzo looked to be pulling a small gap. But Stoner had the pace in his pocket. Good race craft.

CRT's? What an awful experiment. Either they all need to be CRT's, or force the manufacturers to give out their old bikes at the end of the season for the privateers to use the following season. This sham is pathetic.

Do the FIM really have no recourse against Dorna?

[ArnageWRC]

Good question. Just what is the arrangement with Dorna? Are they just the Promoter? Can’t the FiM end the contract? I have no faith in them to put on a good product.
Good clever riding by Stoner, and sensible riding by Lorenzo – picking up more points, but it wasn’t really a spectacle. What have they done to MotoGP?

[chunder]

They and I mean the manufacturers and Dorna have come up with a show that 3 people are reluctant to lose and the rest are determined to change, and that is why its a mess.

You have Yamaha, Honda and DUcati who are quite rightly trying to defend their investment, and you have Dorna, realising that the show is bad and trying to introduce a class for semi prototype bikes, that cost a lot of money still ART Aprilia costs over a million to lease, its a disgrace, typical Aprilia.

Noone is interested coz Rossi is hopeless and you are losing the only guy that lends any excitement in Casey as he has had enough of the whole deal too.

Very odd championship these days, if Kenny was needed anytime, it's now, he sorted it out with Yamaha last time and got little thanks from most, and it needs someone to do the same again

[frostie]

I might be wrong on this so someone correct me because it's been a while since i looked at it. Dorna is the commercial rights holder but also has become the de facto rule maker for MotoGP following the FIMs decision to allow Dorna and the MSMA to write the rule book for the sport.

It's my understanding that Dorna has the final say over the regulations and the MSMA can discuss issues with them but hold no veto any longer. The MSMA is made up of the manufacturers within the sport who been in the class for at least the last two years.
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I think that the FIM sold the commercial rights to Dorna in the hope of recreating the success of Formula 1 as a TV product (which in fairness to Dorna they have been successful in doing) but whereas the agreements with Bernie in F1 were solely commercial for some reason the FIM also decided to hand over the ability to regulate the sport. They simply sanction MotoGP as a world championship.

With Dorna holding both roles it is clear that there is a conflict of interest for the good of the sport and the good of their finances.

[ArnageWRC]

If you are right, and I’ve a feeling you are, then FiM have dropped one in a major way. Dorna should only be the Promoter/ Commercial rights owner. Letting them in on the rules seems wrong – and the blind following of F1, while almost understandable, is a mistake – something the WRC did as well. We all give the FiA plenty of stick, but the FiM seem to be even worse.

[EGG]

It's difficult to find up to date info on how rules are determined between the FIM, Dorna, IRTA and MSMA, but this is the status in 2007:
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/artic..._in_motogp/P2/

The crux of it is:

There are four groups involved in rule making: Dorna, IRTA (teams), the FIM (International Federation), and the MSMA (manufacturers). IRTA invariably support Dorna. The FIM vote is determined by the FIM president. The MSMA vote is decided by simple majority of its seven current member factories.

However, with regards to technical regulations, the MSMA can veto a proposal even if the FIM, Dorna, and IRTA support it. This veto requires all members of the MSMA to vote against the measure (likewise the MSMA can pass a technical rule even over opposition by the other three parties if all MSMA members are in favor.)

In the case of the single-tire proposal, Dorna had the support of IRTA. The FIM would probably (from opinions expressed in interviews by FIM President Vito Ippolito) have voted no. The MSMA would certainly have voted no as well, but at least one member (probably Yamaha, to support Rossi) would have voted with Dorna and, therefore, the MSMA negative vote would not have constituted a veto.

This would have created a 2-2 tie among the deciders, but Dorna hold the power to cast the tiebreak vote.

The MSMA is smaller now, and I suspect the MSMA's ability to unilaterally enact/veto technical regulations might have expired in Dec 2011, but I can't find details on this?

I'd be interested to find out more about the terms under which it was sold to Dorna, as I've never really come across much on this.

-edit, Oh yeah the race! Nice change from the euro-roundabouts but probably a bit processional for the spectators there on the day.

[gomick]

IRTA - the teams, there is about 2 of them

[FAS33]

50,000 people attended the Race, looked like there were barely more then 20,000. great race anyway. Valentino should just retire and give the Yamaha spot to Dovizsioso, he deserves it.

[jhansen]

Originally Posted by FAS33

50,000 people attended the Race, looked like there were barely more then 20,000. great race anyway. Valentino should just retire and give the Yamaha spot to Dovizsioso, he deserves it.

With the hills, that place can spread out quite a bit. So it's hard to tell on TV.

If I were Yamaha, I'd hire Dovi. A perfect number 2 guy. Yamaha are forgetting Motegi in 2010, when Lorenzo and Rossi were practically banging fairings. But I'm sure Dorna is leaning on Yamaha pretty hard to get Rossi signed.