Porsche to take control of Volkswagen

[Mal]

According to this http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20060.html Porsche is now going to take overall control of VAG. Which means that Porsche and Audi will be the same company.

This is bound to have a long term effect on their sportscar programmes. It will be interesting to see how it develops.

[bludvl_x19]

Well, the Lambo and the Audi R8 are virtually the same mechanically, however they are two visually different cars, and marketed at different segments of the market.
I can see the two teams remaining seperate, but maybe sharing data. You are correct in saying that it will be interesting.

Mick

[The359]

Originally Posted by Mal

According to this http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20060.html Porsche is now going to take overall control of VAG. Which means that Porsche and Audi will be the same company.

They already were. Porsche previously owned about 30% I believe of VAG, but has simply increased their shares to above 50%.

[Spyderman]

Yes, and they (VAG and Porsche) have been sharing platforms (Cayenne) and other parts for years.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by The359

They already were. Porsche previously owned about 30% I believe of VAG, but has simply increased their shares to above 50%.

The difference between owning under 30% and over 50% is that the control of the company moves from VAG to Porsche. Therefore a fairly significant change imo.

[AU N EGL]

If or when the time comes they may just market to two differnt areas of sports car fans.

It may be in the new companies best interest to NOT compete against each other.

The Porsche GT program has a long history and many many customers and race car serieas around the world.

Audi has the P1 race program and the DTM. and a few privatieers in other smaller touring car races.

I dont know guys, is the Porche Protyotype program heading for the chopping block??

[Spyderman]

@ Mal - You are correct, but remember that Porsche was the largest share holder even when they had (and still have) only 31% of the total shares.
@ Au N Gel - Everything is possible.

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Spyderman

@ Mal - You are correct, but remember that Porsche was the largest share holder even when they had (and still have) only 31% of the total shares.
@ Au N Gel - Everything is possible.

I understand that, but being the largest shareholder doesnt give them management control - if this change happens it will give them management control

[vorsprung]

[SebringMG]

Originally Posted by Mal

I understand that, but being the largest shareholder doesnt give them management control - if this change happens it will give them management control

Very true but i think they had managed to force the state of Saxony (?) representatives off the board late last year - so they were in defacto control anyway, this just makes it official.

[Spyderman]

Actually they didn't!
The European Court of Justice made the corrections.

Here are the details: http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors...&id=2007-10-23

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by SebringMG

Saxony (?)

Lower Saxony. Which is somewhat important because Saxony was a part of Eastern Germany, back in the bad old days, whereas Lower Saxony was a part of the Federal republic. And while VW produced a lot of crap over the years, they are however NOT responsible for the Trabant...

[/history and geography lesson]

[whitec21]

The biggest problem is Wendelin Wiedeking's obsession with pure profit above all else. Porsche's racing programs are profitable while Audi's most certainly are not. It makes me worry that Wiedeking is only going to look at the balance sheet and cut the program without giving any thought to anything else.

[ThePenguin]

This whole thing could take a while to happen though, because to buy the shares they need to get to 51%, Porsche will need about $20 Billion and I don't think that they have that kind of money just lying around.

[isynge]

Originally Posted by ThePenguin

This whole thing could take a while to happen though, because to buy the shares they need to get to 51%, Porsche will need about $20 Billion and I don't think that they have that kind of money just lying around.

At Monday's prices Porsche would need about €8 billion, and interestingly VW stock fell today - not by much, but no real sign of speculators moving in to capitalise on Porsche spending.

As they drew down a €10 billion credit line from a consortia of major banks on 20 Feb, I don't see money being all that much of a problem.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by whitec21

The biggest problem is Wendelin Wiedeking's obsession with pure profit above all else. Porsche's racing programs are profitable while Audi's most certainly are not. It makes me worry that Wiedeking is only going to look at the balance sheet and cut the program without giving any thought to anything else.

Without motorsport Audi is nothing.

It's the Quattro rally car and subsequent programs that put them on the map.

Cracking the US, and still increasing, European diesel market, not to mention proving diesel and alternative fuels through racing, is reason enough for any manufactuer to be involved in racing.

They need to convince a sceptical public performance cars can be 'green', and develop this technology to a far higher level than it currently is.

In the future motor racing will return to it's R&D routes, it's the only way it will survive.

[whitec21]

Originally Posted by JAG

Without motorsport Audi is nothing.

It's the Quattro rally car and subsequent programs that put them on the map.

Cracking the US, and still increasing, European diesel market, not to mention proving diesel and alternative fuels through racing, is reason enough for any manufactuer to be involved in racing.

They need to convince a sceptical public performance cars can be 'green', and develop this technology to a far higher level than it currently is.

In the future motor racing will return to it's R&D routes, it's the only way it will survive.

I agree with you 100%. I just don't think that Wiedeking will.

[chewymonster]

Porsche better not "mess" with VW/Audi

Volkswagen presents 2007 consolidated financial statements:

- At EUR 6.5 billion, the Volkswagen Group recorded the highest profit before tax in the history of the Company; considerably higher than the target of at least EUR 5.1 billion originally planned for 2008

- Operating profit of EUR 6.2 billion increased by 40.3 percent compared with the previous year’s operating profit before special items, and more than three times higher after special items

which leads to

FRANKFURT (Reuters) -- Germany's Porsche Automobil Holding boosted first-half pretax profit to 1.66 billion euros ($2.53 billion) thanks in part to its 31 percent voting stake in Volkswagen, it said today.

First-half revenue rose 14 percent to 3.49 billion euros ($5.4 Billion), slightly lagging a 19 percent jump in sales to 46,736 vehicles, it said, in line with preliminary figures it gave in January.

Hedging transactions linked to its VW stake contributed 850 million euros ($1.3 Billion) to earnings, up from 791 million ($1.2 Billion) a year ago, while its share of VW profits rose to 484 million euros ($735 Million).

[Spyderman]

Actually, Volkswagen's FY07 results are , in part, due to Porsche "messing" with it.

[chewymonster]

What has Porsche done to give VW all that profit? VW isn't run by idiots and Porshce's magical profits come from making everything an option.

[Spyderman]

Porsche sent in their consultants to modernize and streamiline the VW factories.
http://www.germancarblog.com/2006/12...swagen-to.html