Home Mobile Forum News Cookbook FaceBook Us T-Shirts etc.: Europe/Worldwide. eBay Motorsport Links Advertising Live Chat  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Road Car Forums > Road Car Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22 Aug 2017, 06:24 (Ref:3760857)   #1
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,893
wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
Unecessary Complication in Road Cars

I submit BMW:

"Attached is a photo of three of the washer pumps in a 1999 528i. Closest (left) is the headlight washer pump, then the rear washer pump, and on the inside the windshield washer pump. On the far, lower right is the level sensor. The fourth pump, on the reservoir in the engine compartment near the passenger fenderwell, is for the low-temperature ("intensive") washer fluid and has already been documented."

4 washer fluid pumps!
Not to mention electronically operated washer nozzle valves!

The plastic of the whole system degrades under temperature and the impellers corrode - nice little earner!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 09:53 (Ref:3760891)   #2
MGDavid
Veteran
 
MGDavid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
England
Berkshire
Posts: 3,199
MGDavid has a real shot at the championship!MGDavid has a real shot at the championship!MGDavid has a real shot at the championship!MGDavid has a real shot at the championship!MGDavid has a real shot at the championship!
electric handbrakes
DSG and all other 'clutchless' gearchange apparatus short of full auto.
rain-sensing wipers
dark-sensing sidelights
paddle gearchanges
MGDavid is offline  
__________________
a salary slave no more...
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 11:02 (Ref:3760915)   #3
Mike Harte
Subscriber
Veteran
 
Mike Harte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
United Kingdom
W. Yorkshire
Posts: 2,772
Mike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMike Harte should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Drivers!
Mike Harte is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 18:11 (Ref:3760982)   #4
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 7,116
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Arguably if you want all the new features, the complications are not unnecessary - they're required.

Can't you just get a low end model and not have any of the added complications? My Fiesta is bottom rung (was called the Freedom. How Scottish). Has no AC, no parking sensors...no anything sensors come to think of it. The only added electronics it has is electric mirrors, electric front windows, and an AUX input (56 plate, they weren't common at that time).
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 19:20 (Ref:3760992)   #5
Mike Bell
Race Official
Veteran
 
Mike Bell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
England
Attleborough- 5 minutes from Snet!
Posts: 10,837
Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!Mike Bell has a real shot at the podium!
'Poverty Spec', I call it! Long been a practitioner of it. Even my latest 'wheels' is base spec, apart from upgraded satnav...... Mind you, base spec still included loads of stuff that would happily live without!

One reason I enjoy driving my 1972 Escort is that it has nothing unnecessary to get in the way of the experience. And yet the simple crude heater will scorch your extremities in half the time something modern would take!
Mike Bell is online now  
__________________
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Einstein)
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 19:51 (Ref:3760996)   #6
Tim Falce
Race Official
Veteran
 
Tim Falce's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
England
Very edge of S E London almost in Kent
Posts: 10,789
Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!Tim Falce is going for a new world record!
Tyre pressure monitoring systems
Tim Falce is offline  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 19:56 (Ref:3760998)   #7
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 7,116
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Poverty spec! I like it, Mike.

Have to say though, even poverty spec cars have problems with things like this. My Fiesta has a high pitched whine from the speakers, which is linked to the revs. But it only does it when something is plugged into the cig lighter. Yeah...cars don't need to be complicated for silly things to go wrong. I believe I'm now deaf in my right ear from this whining noise.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 22 Aug 2017, 23:03 (Ref:3761028)   #8
Alfaholic
Veteran
 
Alfaholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
England
Felixstowe
Posts: 625
Alfaholic should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Lane keep assist systems.
Alfaholic is offline  
__________________
I haven't got a life, just an anorak.
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 01:11 (Ref:3761042)   #9
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,893
wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
Climate control!

On off switch works just fine for much longer than this over hyped rubbish!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 01:18 (Ref:3761044)   #10
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,893
wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bell View Post
'Poverty Spec', I call it! Long been a practitioner of it. Even my latest 'wheels' is base spec, apart from upgraded satnav...... Mind you, base spec still included loads of stuff that would happily live without!

One reason I enjoy driving my 1972 Escort is that it has nothing unnecessary to get in the way of the experience. And yet the simple crude heater will scorch your extremities in half the time something modern would take!
Yeah, I got heavily criticized for saying that my Escort was the best road car I had ever owned. I did not mean the fastest, quietest, most comfortable, most expensive or most complicated road car I ever owned. It just did what it was supposed to, and what it wasn't supposed to reliably, comfortably, economically and ... the modifications provided a lot of fun!
Clutch 45 mins, out back in and running, on my own!
Try that in any modern car!

Nothing difficult to work on!
wnut is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 07:08 (Ref:3761079)   #11
Mitchi_S
Racer
 
Join Date: May 2011
Germany
LG
Posts: 292
Mitchi_S should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Cool topic idea!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
"Attached is a photo of three of the washer pumps in a 1999 528i. Closest (left) is the headlight washer pump, then the rear washer pump, and on the inside the windshield washer pump. On the far, lower right is the level sensor. The fourth pump, on the reservoir in the engine compartment near the passenger fenderwell, is for the low-temperature ("intensive") washer fluid and has already been documented."
May I ask where you get this excerpt from?
Mitchi_S is offline  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 07:32 (Ref:3761085)   #12
Adam43
14th
20KPINAL
 
Adam43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
European Union
New Orleans
Posts: 32,315
Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!Adam43 is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnut View Post
Yeah, I got heavily criticized for saying that my Escort was the best road car I had ever owned. I did not mean the fastest, quietest, most comfortable, most expensive or most complicated road car I ever owned. It just did what it was supposed to, and what it wasn't supposed to reliably, comfortably, economically and ... the modifications provided a lot of fun!
Clutch 45 mins, out back in and running, on my own!
Try that in any modern car!

Nothing difficult to work on!
I think most of the "criticism" was because you thought it was a coupe

To be fair there are plenty of old cars that are a pain to change the clutch on. It can quite often be an engine out job

I like the space around the engine bay, you often have, to work on old cars.

However I'm seeing things above that I think are good. There are some brilliant features on modern cars. Whether that's safety, comfort or convenience. But they have to done well with controls (if the feature needs it) that are intuitive, are ergonomic and sensible laid out. This is an issue old and new.

There are also features which aren't needed, but add something, if only entertainment. I like the simplicity of old cars, but also new car features like the car that raises the seat belt buckle so it is easier to find!
Adam43 is offline  
__________________
Why Don't You Just Switch Off Your Television Set and Go Out and Do Something Less Boring Instead?
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:25 (Ref:3761093)   #13
Akrapovic
Veteran
 
Akrapovic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Scotland
Posts: 7,116
Akrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of FameAkrapovic will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfaholic View Post
Lane keep assist systems.
There's an argument to be made that if you have the ability to make something safer, and save lives, it is a necessity.

We complain about added complication, but I want a car with an AUX input. I don't want to listen to the awful radio, and I don't own CDs. I want to listen to my podcasts. So I need this added tech.
Akrapovic is online now  
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 08:29 (Ref:3761097)   #14
midgetman
Veteran
 
midgetman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
England
Rural Wiltshire
Posts: 4,326
midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!midgetman has a real shot at the championship!
Thirty years ago a family friend was always saying "why can't they produce simple cars like a Minor 1000 or Morris Marina that are cheap and gadget-less"! And he was only talking about electric windows and seats...

Personally I like climate control, although my views are now tempered by having paid 300 to have the blower motor and associated burned out gubbins replaced.

Anything computer controlled is dirt cheap, makes the car look more special and allows the price to rise. So you'll get more gizmos

Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk
midgetman is offline  
__________________
Midgetman - known as Max Tyler to the world. MaxAttaq!
Quote
Old 23 Aug 2017, 09:34 (Ref:3761113)   #15
wnut
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,893
wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!wnut has a real shot at the podium!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchi_S View Post
Cool topic idea!



May I ask where you get this excerpt from?
From here:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=676111

and here it is:

wnut is offline  
Quote
Reply

Bookmarks




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[Tech Issue] How relevant are F1 cars to today's road cars? Razor Formula One 15 19 Nov 2011 13:58
Are Touring Cars that far removed from Road Cars? I Rosputnik WTCC & European Touring Car Series 8 9 Feb 2011 15:28
Road cars that you want to see as GT race cars slicktsax Sportscar & GT Racing 66 8 May 2007 17:26
Road "america"? or road of brazilians. kuchi ChampCar World Series 13 21 Aug 2000 02:44
Sorry road race fans, the WC race at The Glen was the best road race this weekend. Joe Fan NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 22 15 Aug 2000 20:40


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:17.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2018 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.