Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Australasian Touring Cars.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14 Mar 2019, 06:29 (Ref:3890323)   #26
Sandgroper
Veteran
 
Sandgroper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Australia
Perth WA (south of the river)
Posts: 2,517
Sandgroper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
I hear you saying it, but I don't know if you really mean it.
to be honest mate, the days of Holden V Ford died years ago. if the racing is good I dont really give a hoot who wins. Dont get mr wrong Im red through and through but who wants to watch the same team win week in week out as HRT or 888 did or even DJR more recently.

If the racings good, bring it on.
Sandgroper is offline  
__________________
GO Hard or GO Home
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 06:59 (Ref:3890327)   #27
V12muscleman
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 21
V12muscleman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
holden teams are sandbagging to get parity adjustment.
Cant tell if trolling or actually this stupid....
V12muscleman is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 07:00 (Ref:3890328)   #28
V12muscleman
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 21
V12muscleman should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesport View Post
Seriously though if DJR/TP were able to win last years championship with inferior aero what did people honestly think would happen when they got equal aero with the stang, let alone the fact that holden teams haven't yet adapted to the linear spring set-up?
You’re making the incorrect assumption that their aero last year was worse than the Commodore. At most of the high aero circuits Ford were as strong if not stronger.
V12muscleman is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 07:02 (Ref:3890329)   #29
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V12muscleman View Post
You’re making the incorrect assumption that their aero last year was worse than the Commodore. At most of the high aero circuits Ford we as strong if not stronger.
Don't forget apart from the whining about composite panels you also had direct accusations from Ford teams about illegal boot lids and lots of other stuff that made the ZB unbeatable, all of which turned out to be rubbish.
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:00 (Ref:3890339)   #30
Compromised
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 848
Compromised should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Obviously cheating.

Supercars themselves extensively parity tested the Mustang, subsequently giving it (in their expert engineering opinion) the ok to race.

If it's passed Supercars rigorous runway evaluation (a gold standard in aerodynamic testing), then you know something foul MUST be afoot!!!
Compromised is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:13 (Ref:3890344)   #31
Driver TBA
Veteran
 
Driver TBA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
Driver TBA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So besides sticking a microphone in Mr Dane and Mr Story's face every 5 minutes for comment on the matter. What would be the process now?

One thing for Holden teams (Nissan too) and their fans to scream parity, but I'd imagine they'd have to pinpoint the actual cause to Supercars to trigger a review?

How to Supercars test this, if it wasn't picked up during 'extensive' runway testing. How to they make the adjustments. Clip the Mustang wings, or give the Altima and ZB an 'upgrade'? All sounds messy, time consuming and expensive.....

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Driver TBA is offline  
__________________
What If the Hokey Pokey Really IS What It's All About???????????
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:16 (Ref:3890345)   #32
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by V12muscleman View Post
You’re making the incorrect assumption that their aero last year was worse than the Commodore. At most of the high aero circuits Ford were as strong if not stronger.
Cant tell if trolling or actually this stupid....
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:26 (Ref:3890347)   #33
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver TBA View Post
One thing for Holden teams (Nissan too) and their fans to scream parity, but I'd imagine they'd have to pinpoint the actual cause to Supercars to trigger a review?
I wonder if there's still a procedure for assessing an average laptime across the different marques and expecting it to be equal to within a given range?

What is striking is that without even new chassis, 5 of those cars have been turned from relative trucks, with drivers who were viewed as also-rans, to being contenders.

But one track, twin spring change, lets see if the coming events bring the Super Stangs back to the field.
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:36 (Ref:3890349)   #34
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Obviously solution at this point would be to tell Ford, etc to go back to the drawing board on the front end.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:48 (Ref:3890351)   #35
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Obviously solution at this point would be to tell Ford, etc to go back to the drawing board on the front end.
Predicated on the hypothetical that there's an inequality that was able to get through the testing, that is a result of them departing from the road car's aesthetics deliberately to achieve a specific outcome.

There's no doubt that Penske are smart enough to have done the work to do such a thing, but if they did, and by doing so obeyed the rule but ignored the spirit or intended interpretation of the rule, how could it be dealt with?

Penske as an organisation has form for being ruthlessly competitive to the point of bending rules. Their NASCAR team was belted in 2013 and again in 2017 (after winning 1/3 of the races) for serious infractions, and Roger himself loves to say "we were not cheating, we were working in a grey area of the rules".

NASCAR is a whole lot more stringent on policing rules than Supercars.
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:56 (Ref:3890353)   #36
Forda
Veteran
 
Forda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,069
Forda should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
An even bigger "rule bender" was the former owner of HRT.

Interesting to see Holden fans discussing parity, yet Holden haven't lost the upcoming races just yet. Very proactive indeed.
Forda is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 08:59 (Ref:3890355)   #37
Driver TBA
Veteran
 
Driver TBA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,394
Driver TBA should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
I wonder if there's still a procedure for assessing an average laptime across the different marques and expecting it to be equal to within a given range?

.

I hope not. That would be assuming all teams, drivers, engines and equipment underneath the bodies are of equal quality. Add to that, it could be skewed by the different quantities of makes. 14, 6 & 4. GRM, Tekno and the Kelly Krate would skew the results too much.


I agree more track time is needed. I don't believe 888 have bought their linear spring A game yet.


In the meantime, enjoy the social media blow ups!
Who said Ford v Holden rivalry is dead.



Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Driver TBA is offline  
__________________
What If the Hokey Pokey Really IS What It's All About???????????
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 09:04 (Ref:3890357)   #38
Jerico
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
New Zealand
Posts: 519
Jerico should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The front shot of the Race2 grid told a story. The bonnet line of the ford is so much lower than the ZB, like night and day. looked like a car from another category had come out for the wrong race. The aero that Supercar's have allowed the ford is a BIG step away from the previous cars in the category. check out the rear wing extension off the boot, or is that a secondary wing? looks like a wing! If 888 and presented a car as modified as this ford Ryan Story would have been on BGT or the Voice. I've not mentioned the ballast weight the fords can moved round their cars in low slung components. Maybe another time must fly.
Jerico is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 09:10 (Ref:3890359)   #39
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico View Post
The aero that Supercar's have allowed the ford is a BIG step away from the previous cars in the category. check out the rear wing extension off the boot, or is that a secondary wing?
I don't think that's the case at all, my only thought is that my artificially dropping the nose, they have achieved the aero target with an artificially low drag result on the front, and in the process made the thing look munted. The rules explain the odd glasshouse but the front looks to be pure performance.

I recall people made the same comment about the Nissan wing, and the ZB. I think this is a product of smaller cars having to fit the same hard points in the design.
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 09:25 (Ref:3890365)   #40
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid


Clearly this was missed in the parity testing...
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 09:27 (Ref:3890367)   #41
chavez
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Australia
The Basin, Victoria
Posts: 2,829
chavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridchavez should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by V12muscleman View Post
Cant tell if trolling or actually this stupid....
Probably a reasonable comment given they are racing this weekend for the Larry Perkins Trophy and Larry himself once had a infamous outburst about others sandbagging.
chavez is offline  
__________________
"Your biggest auto race may one day become a Camaro playground", Chris Economaki, Bathurst 1979
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 09:33 (Ref:3890368)   #42
Jerico
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
New Zealand
Posts: 519
Jerico should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The VF and ZB had and have an extension off the boot to place the wing in the right spot for the rules, its flat. the Mustang's is not flat and has a turn up.

Funny little chat after Race1 with Story right in Scott's face after the race, before anyone could interview Scott. Any lip readers in tonight. And it wasn't the BS Scotty said it was. It was a debrief off radio, don't make any comments about the car being really fast or a jet. As he'd just driven away from everyone.
Jerico is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 09:54 (Ref:3890376)   #43
Umai Naa
Veteran
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,396
Umai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridUmai Naa should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
If I recall correctly, there is a predetermined size of bootlid area that the teams can work with. Which means they can extend an existing bootlid to meet that figure.
Umai Naa is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 10:11 (Ref:3890384)   #44
bluesport
Veteran
 
bluesport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Australia
Posts: 3,557
bluesport User had had their licence endorsedbluesport User had had their licence endorsed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post


Clearly this was missed in the parity testing...
The distance from the top of the front wheel arch to the top of the guard looks higher on the stang, hence the nose drops more.
bluesport is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 11:16 (Ref:3890397)   #45
Mixer
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location:
Surry Hills, NSW
Posts: 6,607
Mixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridMixer should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
4 Mustangs lead the next car by .7, Chaz nowhere because he overcooked it. Ouch
Mixer is online now  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 11:24 (Ref:3890401)   #46
Axeman444
Veteran
 
Axeman444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Australia
Calling a spade a spade...
Posts: 4,117
Axeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridAxeman444 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
you do realise this is augmented by the view of the mustang being from a higher point than the other 2?
Axeman444 is offline  
__________________
In the words of the Great Forrest Gump: I'm not a smart man, but at least I know where the Dog on the Tuckerbox is
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 11:24 (Ref:3890402)   #47
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umai Naa View Post
Clearly this was missed in the parity testing...
Not sure if serious or trolling...

It clearly was not missed, that is exactly the configuration the Supercars Mustang was first presented in and it was exactly the configuration in which the Mustang complied with the required drag and downforce at 200 kmph on the air-field test.

There is absolutely no parity issue whatsoever. To suggest otherwise is utterly absurd.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 11:29 (Ref:3890404)   #48
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico View Post
The front shot of the Race2 grid told a story. The bonnet line of the ford is so much lower than the ZB,
It is much lower than the others and much lower than a Mustang road car (and it is hideous for that), however crucially that was signed off on and is entirely within the rules.

The rules ONLY require the cars to match in downforce and drag at 200 kmhr.

The downforce and drag at all other speeds, and in yaw, is free to be optimised. Ford Performance have done that, and that is entirely within the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerico View Post
the Mustang's is not flat and has a turn up.
That's within the rules. Downforce and drag only has to match at 200kmhr, which the Mustang does match to the others at.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 11:31 (Ref:3890405)   #49
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixer View Post
I don't think that's the case at all, my only thought is that my artificially dropping the nose, they have achieved the aero target with an artificially low drag result on the front,
The key is the drag only has to match at 200 kmhr on the airfield test. The drag of the Mustang matches the Commodore and Altima at 200 kmhr, and that is ALL that the parity rules require.

Ford Performance are free to optimise the drag (and downforce) at all other speeds, they have done so, and that is entirely legitimate within the rules.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Mar 2019, 11:35 (Ref:3890407)   #50
V8 Fireworks
Veteran
 
V8 Fireworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,923
V8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridV8 Fireworks should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver TBA View Post
So besides sticking a microphone in Mr Dane and Mr Story's face every 5 minutes for comment on the matter. What would be the process now?
There is no process to follow, as there is no parity issue.

The parity was already sorted when the cars were presented at the airfield test, tested, adjusted as required, finalised and confirmed as all matching each other.
V8 Fireworks is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pepsi 400 & Ford 400 MD2K NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 5 9 May 2004 23:07
Duralube 400 thoughts and predictions.... FREAKSFORUM.COM NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 5 26 Feb 2001 22:03
So who is going to win the Brickyard 400? Joe Fan NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 10 10 Aug 2000 15:33
Brickyard 400 Odds MJ NASCAR & Stock Car Racing 2 4 Aug 2000 15:19
Greatly Mangled Car 400 Crash Test Touring Car Racing 12 13 Jun 2000 07:20


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:32.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.