Anyone here running a Julian Godfrey engine?

[Greg Cozier]

Had a bad experience with one of his Duratec engines and wondering if it's the norm.

[205munchkin]

You won't get any further on here than you did on the British Rally forum i'm afraid.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by 205munchkin

You won't get any further on here than you did on the British Rally forum i'm afraid.

He's pretty much the default option for a rallycross YB. He's also run Duratecs (both 1600 and 2000) in rallycross himself for a while now - there doesn't seem to be a recurring issue with those engines. Mountune or SBD or the other options I'd look at for a Duratec if you're still looking for alternatives.

[tbtstt]

What sort of engine was Hunsbedt running in his Volvo C30?

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by tbtstt

What sort of engine was Hunsbedt running in his Volvo C30?

A powerful one!

[tbtstt]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

A powerful one!

Depending on whose dyno you use...

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

He's pretty much the default option for a rallycross YB. He's also run Duratecs (both 1600 and 2000) in rallycross himself for a while now - there doesn't seem to be a recurring issue with those engines. Mountune or SBD or the other options I'd look at for a Duratec if you're still looking for alternatives.

Thanks Bert/205. It is a puzzle that haunts me. I've decided to go back to Millington for a series 1 (our regs require production block and head). Unfortunately my friend Ian who also had two Goddfrey engines is stuck; both financially and due to engine installation.

[chunder]

Cant be that stuck financially if you can afford to buy Millington or Godfrey to be fair #differentworld

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by chunder

Cant be that stuck financially if you can afford to buy Millington or Godfrey to be fair #differentworld

An excellent example of 'buy once, cry once'. The first Millington I bought I took out a loan which my sponsors paid off. It lasted 12 years with one 'rings and shells' rebuild and owes me nothing. Couldn't ask for a better human to deal with than Roy Millington, even though my engine was 'low spec' compared to some of his beasts.

Tried to save money on an engine for a new Mk2 escort by having Goddfrey build a Duratec which are meant to be 'cheap power'. Blew the engine twice for no reason other than poor build and ****ed away more money with an unscrupulous fool than if I'd bought a second Millington.

Lesson learned: never break your own rules.

[GOLDFINGER]

i used to run a HT engine on the circuits, they used to guarentee them for 12 months & charged £800 at the end of year to rebuilt it for the following season, i thought Godreys rs200 engines were just a rip off of Schanches or was that someone else ?

[Greg Cozier]

I've read good things about HT Racing.

The more I dig the more horror stories I find about Godfrey. Thanks to all those who have PM'd me.

[BertMk2]

To be fair I think you can find horror stories about just about any engine builder if you dig deep enough - not all of them justified i has to be said. I know someone who kicked up a huge stink about someone that had built an engine for them - eventually it turned out they were running it on normal unleaded when it was built to run on super+, they ran it knowingly on the wrong fuel because it was cheaper

JRE have a good reputation but we had to send a head back for them as we weren't happy with it - second time round it was spot on. SBD stopped building engines for people due to the problems of people blowing them up and complaining - they now just supply the parts for you to build your own - and they're very good kits for XE and Duratec. I can recommend SBD for parts and service - they opened up a couple of days before Christmas a few years back because we needed some parts.

[GORDON STREETER]

I've seen complaints about most engine builders over the years some are justified some not.
Unless the builder does the whole installation himself it's a whole can of worms once it's left his workshop.
I remember one case where the customer fitted his own engine and fitted the oil pipes the wrong way round and consequently f****d it up.
He then took it back and the builder repaired it for nothing to keep his name only for the pratt to do it again !
So it's not always the person that builds it in the first place

[GOLDFINGER]

used to be the thing with HT they would check install and insist on certain things like oil cooler size etc , you get what you pay for

[FastDB2s]

Not the same thing I know, but we like to install the Aston engines I rebuild, if we dont fit there are a great long list of conditions I want carrying out - owner to do.
A lot of failures are down to installation.
BTW I used to build Manta 400 engines, Roy M was one of my competitors.
Chris Adams - Four Ashes Aston.

[The Dozer]

I don't see what you are trying to achieve here ? Are you trying to blacken Julians reputation ? Any engine can blow up at any time for a number of reasons. . . I ran a Toyota engine for ten years never a minutes trouble then i built another one it done one event and blew . .built another one then and it has done 7 years of racing since . . . You can put a lot of blown engines down to driver error . . . .

[Greg Cozier]

I appreciate that installation is a big issue; except not in this case.

In 2010 I bought a Stewart rally-spec Duratec engine from Ireland for my Mk2 Escort with zero stage miles, needed one in a hurry. I removed the fuel injection, fitted a pair of 48DCO-SP Webers (required by regs), did a bit of jetting and won the first rally I entered with it.

At the end of the 2010 season I contracted Julian Godfrey Engineering to rebuild the engine (for peace of mind), dyno-jet the carbs and re-map the spark-only ECU for better mid-range performance, which he did - the invoice was twice the quotation but I paid it. After approximately 50 stage miles in my first rally with the rebuilt engine I heard a bottom-end noise on a road section; I shut it down and retired from the rally. After removing the engine from the car and removing the sump I found the number four big end bearing (closest to oil supply) had spun inside its connecting rod. I returned the engine to Godfrey by air freight where the crank, rods, bearings and bolts were changed. I received no explanation from Goddfrey for why the problem occurred; I paid to rebuild the engine again despite assuring Julian that the installation had not changed in any way.

After approximately 50 miles of testing and stage rallying the engine threw number four connecting rod through the block. I contacted Julian Godfrey and politely expressed my disappointment. After a mutually-agreed inspection of the dismantled engine and dry-sump plumbing installation by a local Godfrey customer and accomplished race engineer and my maintaining that there had to be a reason why a perfectly installed, working and winning engine should fail twice after rebuilds by him, Julian agreed that if I sent the oil supply lines and dry sump tank to him for inspection and he found nothing wrong with them, he would replace the engine free of charge. I sent the oil tank and lines by FedEx. Julian inspected the pipes and tanks and said he could find nothing wrong with either of these which might have caused the problem. I air-freighted what was left of the engine back to him for the third time for warranty repairs.

In late April 2012 Godfrey told me the parts he needed to rebuild the engine for the third time would cost approximately £3,000 and I’d have to pay half (despite his earlier agreement). By this time I had already air-freighted what was left of the engine back to Godfrey at great expense based on our previous arrangement so I was forced to agree to this due to thetimescale.

On May 11th, 2012 I received an invoice by e-mail from Frances Godfrey for £6,924 for the third rebuild of the engine. I told Frances that this was not my agreement with Julian and to have him call me. To date I have received no call but after an e-mail exchange I instructed them to pack up the parts I sent them in February 2012 and send them back to me so I could have a reputable engine builder build me a new engine.

As anyone reading this can tell, Julian Godfrey’s problem is not simply that he builds bad engines, it is that he is an unscrupulous businessman. We all have problems in our professions but how we deal with them defines our professionalism. I am partly to blame for not meeting my motor sport commitments over the past 18 months because, as the old saying goes: “Trick me once, shame on you; trick me twice, shame on me!” I have been rallying for 28 years and the first engine failure I have ever experienced is with this Godfrey engine.

[chunder]

Is rather odd how simply changing the fuel setup can suddenly make an engine become unreliable.

Why may I ask could you not use an engine builder in Ireland as surely there must be countless decent builders of Mk2 engines over there as that is where they are most popular?

We are also only hearing your side, not his. He is clearly a busy man and maybe should either take on some staff or look at ways of improving his experience. Quoting people is a stupid idea in motorsport as things rarely seem to be the same price as quoted.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by chunder

Is rather odd how simply changing the fuel setup can suddenly make an engine become unreliable.

Why may I ask could you not use an engine builder in Ireland as surely there must be countless decent builders of Mk2 engines over there as that is where they are most popular?

We are also only hearing your side, not his. He is clearly a busy man and maybe should either take on some staff or look at ways of improving his experience. Quoting people is a stupid idea in motorsport as things rarely seem to be the same price as quoted.

Chunder, I'm in Barbados, not Ireland. I sent the engine to JG because he was recommended to me by a local who runs a YB rallycross engine as well as Pat Doran who is a friend of mine.

I don't think changing the jetting and bearings made the engine unreliable; I'll never know for sure but i believe JG's oil pressure settings were too low on the Pace pump. The car ran at 40/85 psi before I sent it to JG and 25/65 psi when it came back. I contacted JG about it when I first started it up but was told it was perfect. Bear in mind that both failures were conrod bearings closest to the dry sump oil supply into the block (#4). Subsequent Duratec research seems to indicate they run high oil pressures and minimum clearances with the tabless bearings (some say the pressure should be 100psi).

And no, it's not just my side. A friend here in Barbados had the same thing happen to a Field Duratec rebuilt by JG at the beginning of this year that also threw rod bearings out on two separate occasions after 50-odd miles. That engine was top of its class for four years before JG, he's now gone to Dunnell. I've even found a couple people in Uk (which was the purpose of this post) who've had similar problems and there is legal action pending I'm hoping to join.

Maybe JG can build YBs and can't build Duratecs; that really isn't the issue. The problem is he's unscrupulous and is 'too busy' to deal with customer problems. An engine builder is only ever as good as his reputation.

[morninggents]

It's 'how problems are dealt with' that's the key in any business. For many years I used agreat engine builder but he's now retired and I had to look elsewhere. I tried one with a good reputation but it was a bad engine and the issue was only partly resolved to my satisfaction. Now I'm with another good engine man.
A friend with a similar car/engine combination had issues with his engine builder - distributor left loose amongst other things - and his man just didn't want to know.

Also, always get quotes and estimates in writing - it's difficult to sue on an 'I said - he said' basis.

[GORDON STREETER]

As a matter of interest is the oil pressure gauge (or sender) connected to the main oil gallery on the engine ?

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by Greg Cozier

A friend here in Barbados had the same thing happen to a Field Duratec rebuilt by JG at the beginning of this year that also threw rod bearings out on two separate occasions after 50-odd miles. That engine was top of its class for four years before JG, he's now gone to Dunnell.

I know someone that had problems with a Field Duratec (including some things that I would certainly describe as unscrupulous) so it's all a bit of a minefield. Build it yourself is the only way to be sure of what's going on (and then it's definitely your fault when it lets go! )

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

As a matter of interest is the oil pressure gauge (or sender) connected to the main oil gallery on the engine ?

Yes.

The construction of the Duratec (and similar modern engines) is quite an engineering feat.

Consider this: no plane bearing would ever wear out if there was never contact between steel (like crank) and the sacrificial material of the bearing. Whether the contact happens at startup or when oil is cold or at max MEP (torque) is irrelevant; you'd never change bearings if contact didn't happen.

The Duratec clearances from the factory are miniscule compared to traditional engines, I doubt any race engine was ever 'blueprinted' to the clearances and tolerances in a standard Duratec. The main and conrod bearings are not tabbed; they are located by a specific crush force in the standard rods and main caps and depend on the carefully set clearances and very high (by conventional standards) oil pressure to work at road-car stress.

I have been told by another engine builder that replacing standard rods with steel rods and retaining the bearing system is impossible, the new rods do not replicate in compression, heat expansion etc of the standard ones. Therefore when changing rods it is better to revert to conventional aftermarket tabbed bearings and cut the crank to match. JG used aftermarket rods, standard bearings and standard crank in my engine (as do other people).

Bear in mind all the research I've done happened after the fact; I'm just trying to find out what went wrong. JG sure as hell doesn't care.

[Greg Cozier]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I know someone that had problems with a Field Duratec (including some things that I would certainly describe as unscrupulous) so it's all a bit of a minefield. Build it yourself is the only way to be sure of what's going on (and then it's definitely your fault when it lets go! )

Yes, me too. We might be drinking with the same reprobates

[chunder]

Ah I see, you have my sympathy, running that sort of kit in a country where there is little engineering help must be difficult!

But I imagine word of mouth spreads, so any bad mouthing you will do isnt gonna help his trade in Barbados!